Genetic bottleneck? Blue eastern box turtle.

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Allghoi Khorkhoi

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Allghoi Khorkhoi said:
Your Blue EBT looks realistic with white blotches mixed in the color and the blue looks natural.

In July of 2010 the turtle pictured below was offered for sale on Kingsnake for $500 I think - can't remember, could have been asking more. I felt these pictures were of a turtle that had been dipped in methylene blue or some other form of fraud like feeding it colloidal silver because the color just doesn't look natural.
BTW the guy selling it got it from a third party and didn't seem to know it's origins or history.


Thanks for posting the pics! That one is very unique, the color is a different shade, too. I'd love to see more pics of him. Anybody know where that one went?

This is the email of the guy who had posted the blue EBT I pictured there.
Jonathan Benson <[email protected]>

Let me know if you get anywhere with it - I'm still curious to know if it was really blue.
 

pryncesssc

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Do you ever find articles on turtle genetics at all ?? I would be very interested in reading those and maybe even talking with my teachers at school about it !
 

Saloli

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Yes there are some articles or papers on genetics in several herpetological publications. Though you generally have to be a member of the professional society that publishes them. There are a couple on Terrapene that you can find online that are available to the public. You can find them through google scientific.
 

jason g.

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karlyholmes said:
My husband gets disgruntled when I buy $1.50 blackberries and 0.98 turnip greens for my 5 boxies... I wonder what Ill be paying if any of my 6 boxie eggs hatch?

Lol I had to lie to my wife and tell her my sully didn't cost much to feed. I knew when she fell in love with her the food bill wouldn't matter. I'm glad she fell in love cause they are way more expensive than I thought. That's a beautiful boxie. I love the blue.
 

pryncesssc

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Very cool ! I have seen some cool articles online but I wasnt a member to see the whole thing. But I will look on Google scientific ...
 

Tccarolina

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Allghoi Khorkhoi said:
Allghoi Khorkhoi said:
Your Blue EBT looks realistic with white blotches mixed in the color and the blue looks natural.

In July of 2010 the turtle pictured below was offered for sale on Kingsnake for $500 I think - can't remember, could have been asking more. I felt these pictures were of a turtle that had been dipped in methylene blue or some other form of fraud like feeding it colloidal silver because the color just doesn't look natural.
BTW the guy selling it got it from a third party and didn't seem to know it's origins or history.


Thanks for posting the pics! That one is very unique, the color is a different shade, too. I'd love to see more pics of him. Anybody know where that one went?

This is the email of the guy who had posted the blue EBT I pictured there.
Jonathan Benson <[email protected]>

Let me know if you get anywhere with it - I'm still curious to know if it was really blue.

Thanks for the contact info.
I emailed the guy but haven't heard anything back yet.

Steve
 

Tccarolina

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Allghoi Khorkhoi said:
Your Blue EBT looks realistic with white blotches mixed in the color and the blue looks natural.

In July of 2010 the turtle pictured below was offered for sale on Kingsnake for $500 I think - can't remember, could have been asking more. I felt these pictures were of a turtle that had been dipped in methylene blue or some other form of fraud like feeding it colloidal silver because the color just doesn't look natural.

1089745.jpg


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1089746.jpg


Yours is very interesting. BTW the guy selling it got it from a third party and didn't seem to know it's origins or history.

The guy emailed me back. It turns out that it is the same turtle that was posted on this forum some time back. Here are more pics of this turtle. It is owned by a guy in South Carolina, and is in a breeding program with some females from the area it was found in. My other blue male with the blue throat and front leg patches is from the exact same area as this one.

bluepost-23468-0127358001315450722s.jpg


blueDSCF0008s.jpg


bluepost-23468-0664644001315450667s.jpg


blueDSCF0007s.jpg


blueDSCF0006s.jpg
 

pryncesssc

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Wow I wonder that it is about that area ? Perhaps you are right that for generations a group of turtles were secluded to an area and a recessive trait started showing itself more often because more and more individuals have the trait.

This is such an interesting topic !!
 

Saloli

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Do you think you could send me his contact info? I would like to be able to have him in my data base because my main goal is maintaining genetic diversity and not many people have turtle with the blue trait. Now I need to find other people that have turtles with the green shell/skin traits
 

Allghoi Khorkhoi

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supremelysteve said:
The guy emailed me back. It turns out that it is the same turtle that was posted on this forum some time back. Here are more pics of this turtle. It is owned by a guy in South Carolina, and is in a breeding program with some females from the area it was found in. My other blue male with the blue throat and front leg patches is from the exact same area as this one.

Well, that is interesting - those are more convincing pictures.
 

Tccarolina

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Allghoi Khorkhoi said:
supremelysteve said:
The guy emailed me back. It turns out that it is the same turtle that was posted on this forum some time back. Here are more pics of this turtle. It is owned by a guy in South Carolina, and is in a breeding program with some females from the area it was found in. My other blue male with the blue throat and front leg patches is from the exact same area as this one.

Well, that is interesting - those are more convincing pictures.

Yes, I'm surprised I didn't recognize the markings, but it's definitely the same turtle. It's from western SC, and the current owner has I believe 3 or 4 females from the vicinity of where it was found, and is hoping to breed them. The color of my male from that vicinity is a paler blue and smaller than my other blue male that is the subject of this post. They all have the totally white beak, and the blue color is dark and muted in the mornings when it's cool more of a dark gray-purplish. The color intensifies when it gets warm, and perhaps based on mood. I wonder if warmer blood flow in the skin affects it, or if it is neurologically controlled. Something about the color particles are drawn tight together in the cell or spread out to intensify or reduce color.

I've been told by one person that in Gulf Coast's the leg color shows up right out of the egg if blue, but I'll have to see. I really hope it's immediately identifiable somehow.

My new blue male is still not adjusted to captive life, and sulks in the corners. He won't eat live food if he can see me, and seems to prefer snails and strawberries. I don't know if he's eating any prepared food yet. My South Carolina blue male is adjusted now. He went through a bout with RI this spring and was sulking, and not eating. Now he's gregarious and active, and feeds well on prepared food.

Steve
 

katelyn0974

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supremelysteve said:
Here are two of the four females from the blue locality. I don't have pictures yet of the other two females.
So far, three of the four have laid eggs for me, with a total of thirteen eggs. The first two clutches of four are fertile, and it's too early to tell on the third clutch of five eggs.

This first female laid four fertile eggs soon after she arrived.

This is the only one of the four that has not laid eggs for me. She laid eggs before I got her in the pen of the guy who collected her.

That is an absolutely beautiful turtle. Will you be selling the babies?
 

Tccarolina

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katelyn0974 said:
supremelysteve said:
Here are two of the four females from the blue locality. I don't have pictures yet of the other two females.
So far, three of the four have laid eggs for me, with a total of thirteen eggs. The first two clutches of four are fertile, and it's too early to tell on the third clutch of five eggs.

This first female laid four fertile eggs soon after she arrived.

This is the only one of the four that has not laid eggs for me. She laid eggs before I got her in the pen of the guy who collected her.

That is an absolutely beautiful turtle. Will you be selling the babies?
Yes, I will be selling most of them, but I'm not sure when. I'm incubating them carefully for male, but I don't know what they will look like.

Steve
 

Saloli

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Hey Steve my male Blue was mating with my green shelled female today. I wonder what their babies will look like. Any idea of what the two traits look like together or if they would even show up? As I don't know how the two traits are determined genetically I have now idea of how to predict the cross. If it is a simple heterozygous/homozygous dominant/recessive relationship or if they a codominant I might have some idea. Though if the blue trait is epigenetic as I think might be the case it would have to work on what ever alleles are there but what those alleles are I have no way of knowing. This is definitely a time when I wish I had a pcr machine. To bad they are expensive.
 

Tccarolina

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Saloli said:
Hey Steve my male Blue was mating with my green shelled female today. I wonder what their babies will look like. Any idea of what the two traits look like together or if they would even show up? As I don't know how the two traits are determined genetically I have now idea of how to predict the cross. If it is a simple heterozygous/homozygous dominant/recessive relationship or if they a codominant I might have some idea. Though if the blue trait is epigenetic as I think might be the case it would have to work on what ever alleles are there but what those alleles are I have no way of knowing. This is definitely a time when I wish I had a pcr machine. To bad they are expensive.

I still don't know what green looks like. When are you going to post some pics!

Why don't you pick up a pcr machine, and I'll send you tissue samples! I haven't done any of that since college.

Steve
 

katelyn0974

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supremelysteve said:
Yes, I will be selling most of them, but I'm not sure when. I'm incubating them carefully for male, but I don't know what they will look like.

Steve

I will keep a look out for when you post. I am very interested. Thank you for your response. Good day!
 

Saloli

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When I have enough room and free money ( that is not needed for something else I'd like to get a pcr machine) until the we have to base it on observation like Mendel did.
 

Tccarolina

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Saloli said:
When I have enough room and free money ( that is not needed for something else I'd like to get a pcr machine) until the we have to base it on observation like Mendel did.

The first thing you need to buy is a camera so you can post pictures of your turtles!

Mendel's peas were a lot easier and faster to study than box turtles. Of course we have the shoulders of giants to stand on and all.

Steve
 
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