Growth Testudo Hermanni Hercegovinensis

[christine vdbs]

Hi, I have 4 Testudo Hermanni Hercegovinensis from 2011. Their growth is very different. I wonder if there is a problem with the slow growers or the fast growers or if they really are all Testudo Hermanni Hercegovinensis.

From Mei 2012 to August 2014 they went from:
26 g to 156 g (0,92 oz tot 5,50 oz)
30 g to 90 g (1,06 oz to 3,17 oz)
31 g to 59 g (1,09 oz to 2,08 oz)
23 g to 55 g (0,81 oz to 1,94 oz)

This means the second smallest in Mei 2012 is now more than 5 times heavier and the largest did even not double her weight. The heaviest now went last year at first in hibernation and did the same this year. The one which even did not double her weight was the last to go into hibernation and was the first to come out in spring. She likes to stay outside even if the weather is bad and cold.

So is this just a normal variation or is there a problem or are some of them another (maybe larger) kind of Greek tortoises. Thanks a lot for helping me out with this.
Christine

 

[G-stars]

At 2 years of age they should be a lot heavier. Maybe the bigger one is eating the smaller ones share of food? I would separate them.


— Gus

 

[wellington]

I would separate also. May be some big time bullying going on. Sometimes, it's not so obvious.

 

[christine vdbs]

There is plenty of fresh food (different herbs) and definitely no bullying. This year they did not get much tortoise food from the shop. This did not have a negative effect on their growth. Sometimes they walk over each other, but everyone is eating as much as she likes. Of course the big one is eating most. When I gave tortoise food I made sure she is not eating too much and I tried to make the other ones eat more. They have plenty of herbs in their living space and they get nearly every day something extra what does not grow there. There are always leftovers. They are 3 years old.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Christine, and welcome to the Forum!

You don't always see bullying. I call it mental bullying. The larger one is telling the less dominant one to get out of his territory. The smaller one, being contained in a 'box' has no way of getting out of the territory...so he just doesn't thrive.

 

[THBfriend]

At 2 years of age they should be a lot heavier.

Not necessarily. A weight of 50-60 g is perfectly fine for a 2-year-old Hermann's tortoise, if you're going for a natural slow growth. However, if Christine's tortoises were around 30 g in May 2012, that probably means they hatched in late summer 2011 and are 3 years old now, not 2.
For 3-year-olds, 60 g is low indeed. Should be at least 75 g or so.

 

[christine vdbs]

Yes, they are 3 years old and indeed I try to keep them as natural as possible in this climate (Belgium/Europe). They have about 3,5 m² = 37 ft². Most outdoors and a part indoors with a warmth lamp. Next year or the year after we will give them more space and in a few years they will be allowed to move around in nearly the whole garden (140 m² = 1500 ft²). Last winter they spent in the indoor part, several cm or a few inches under the ground with an extra isolation of leaves. The large one went first into hibernation (beginning of September) and got out last. The one who grows most slowly went more than 2 moth later into hibernation (sometimes in November). She is the one who loves outdoor life most. Even if the weather is bad and I put her into the indoor space in the evening, I would find her outdoors the next morning. So as soon I put her in she goes back to one of her favorite sleeping spots outdoors. I do not think that she is doing this to avoid the large animal. Sometimes they sleep all together in the same spot. And they clearly choose the same spot to hibernate.

The largest one prefers to sleep indoors and comes usually out in the morning if she hears that the protection roaster of the outdoor space is moved, which means that I put some extra herbs at their feeding stones. She reacts clearly on the vibrations of the moving of the roaster and not on the smell of the herbs. ;-)

Oh yes, as far as I know, Testudo hermanni herzegovinensis is the smallest kind of the Greek tortoises.

 

[Raymo2477]

Question for you...are you in German or French speaking Belgium? I ask this because you call testudo hermanni GREEK...but English speakers call them Hermann's tortoises. I know in German the Testudo Hermanni is the Grieschise Schildkroete and the Testudo Graeca is the Maurische Schildkroete...just liguistically curious.

 

[Raymo2477]

Sorry I forgot they also speak Dutch there.

 

[christine vdbs]

Yep, and I am living in the Dutch speaking area. But here on the forum the therm 'Greek' is used too. ;-)

 

[peasinapod]

Yep, and I am living in the Dutch speaking area. But here on the forum the therm 'Greek' is used too. ;-)

The term "Greek tortoise" is used for Testudo graeca. It is very confusing, I know.

 

[Jabuticaba]

Hello and welcome to the forum.


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