Hello! New Mommy to a 6-8 yr old Red-Footed Tort. Rescued and shes not in the best shape......

[Pearly]

Warm welcome from Texas

 

[BeastMasterW00]

Good job! I can tell you're doing your research which is beautiful for me to hear haha. If the chicken is too difficult to manage you can feed eggs, boiled or scrambled. I boil eggs and smash them whole, my RF eats it shell and all. He started getting violent towards boiled eggs because he decided he didn't like it anymore so I scramble eggs shell and all now. If yours doesn't eat boiled, try scrambled. Hopefully she's not a diva like mine

IIRC kale and cactus pads can hinder calcium absorption due to the high concentration of oxalates. I wouldn't stop feeding them because they're nutritious and great for poop problems, but I wouldn't feed them every day due to the importance of calcium for the tortoise's shell and bone health.



Thank you so much! We adore her and want to do the best we can. I catch earthworms and pull bugs as a treat for my frogs. Going to try adding some in for Donatella as well and she if she'll take to them. Have her some mustard greens today and she loved them. ( we do have a calcium supplement for her as well ) You've all been a wonderful help to us and we are very grateful for this forum. Thank you!!!!!

 

[BeastMasterW00]

Warm welcome from Texas

Thank you!!!

 

[jockma]

Donatella!!! Adorable name! Enjoy your new beautiful tortoise!

 

[BeastMasterW00]

Ah, the eternal diet thing. This is a real challenge with exotic animals, and even pets, domestic animals, and humans. What IS the perfect and proper diet for a given species? What they eat in the wild is what they are used to, but even wild animals often suffer dietary ailments.

Redfoots are a great example. Field notes almost always mention eating proteins and weird things. Like Carl said, this includes bird feet and beaks, but also includes fox scat, and lots of termites. The surprising thing, to me, is that the largest and most consistent finding is butterflies! Its kinda weird to think of the lowly tortoise as a significant butterfly predator! The problem is that too many people and even well-meaning authors, have interpreted ;eating some forms of protein' as 'eating real meat' and include meat as part of the diet.

Now, we are not going to give our torts butterflies and chicken feet, so the question becomes what is an appropriate substitute? This gets tricky since we really don't know what their real protein needs are based on hard research. We can make some darn good educated guesses based on what we know about other species and the answer may be a bit surprising... they probably don't need any meat proteins. in captivity

You see, the places most tortoise species like this live are warm, humid, and experience a lot of rain (even though the Amazon is in the middle of a pretty horrific drought). This washes the nutrients out of the thin soil, so the plants tend to be a low in nutritional value, except the seeds and fruits which we will get to in a moment. A lot like the Venus Flytrap, they eat meat because they cannot get proteins, etc., from the soil or plant life.

Most of the foods we have access to, on the other hand, are pretty nutrient rich, including being high in proteins. (FYI- there IS a difference between plant and meat proteins, there just isn't any evidence that tortoise biology cares about the difference.)

So... DO THEY NEED MEAT PROTEIN? Almost certainly not, but an occasional SMALL 'meaty' treat may be good insurance. I would suggest a low-fat option, like good quality diet cat food (canned or kibble), a little poultry, or (if you are OK with the bowels they cause) some egg or oily fish. Home-made jerky made from some low-fat meat would probably be a great treat for these guys if you are into that.

Fruits. This is a really fascinating element. Field researchers find that redfoots eat a LOT of fruit- 70% or more of their diet is fruit when they can find it. (Fruiting seasons in the tropics are different than in most of the US- different trees fruit at different times, so they may not be a fruiting tree within a mile now, and the next week may rain fruit on you.) When most American authors hear 'fruit' they think 'sweet and juicy plant things'. When a scientist says 'fruit', they mean the 'fruiting body' of a plant- where the ovaries are fertilized, store nutrients, and prepare to create a new plant. Squash, pumpkins, cucumbers, peppers, peas, beans, nuts, and grains are all actually fruits (but tortoises cannot and should not eat every kind of fruit, so don't go tossing hot peppers in there!)

Tropical plants put most of their effort and energy in fruiting- that is where they put most of the meager nutrients they can suck out of the ground, so most tropical animals depend on fruits. Most of the fruits a wild redfoot eats are figs, cactus fruit, and a huge amount of stuff from plants most of us have never heard of. One tastes like a hard sour cherry, another is described as 'potato like'- hardly the sweet stuff we are used to. These fruits are not as full of simple sugars as our grocery store fruits, but have a lot more calcium, protein, and other nutrients.

How do we use this information? Basically, we feed our tortoises a nice, colorful mixed salad. Some bell pepper, some squash, mushrooms, peas, and the like- in whole form when possible or cut just enough to help smaller torts get a good bite on them.

Thank you!!!!

 

[BeastMasterW00]

Donatella!!! Adorable name! Enjoy your new beautiful tortoise!

Thank you so much!

 

[BeastMasterW00]

I've fed boiled eggs to my laying females in that past. They do seem to relish them too.
But the messy poops later...yuck! I stopped this practice many years ago.
The protein 'needs' of red-footed tortoises has been way overblown on the various forums and in hobbyist magazine articles. The reality is that although they do consume animal remains every time they encounter them in the wild, the consumption of carrion (usually only little pieces left behind by predators) constitutes a small percentage of the overall diet.
The items of animal protein most often identified in wild red-foot scats is stuff like bird feathers and skin, lizard skin and bones, termites and things like these.
So in reality the tortoises are not eating anything like the chicken, cat food, dog food, shrimp and numerous other super rich (and fatty) foods that keepers regularly offer their tortoises.

Nice job so far BeastMaster. Here's an idea, when you do offer the boiled chicken, try to extract as much of the grease/ fat out of the meat as you can by pressing it between layers of paper towels. Then break up the chicken into some good quality greens, or romaine/dark green leaf lettuce, etc. This way you'll be getting her used to consuming food items that are better for her.
Try to cut back on both the kale and boiled chicken down the road.

Thank you so much! To limit the grease factor we've been boiling, removing the fat as it floats to the surface and only feeding white meat. I'll give the paper towel press a try for sure!

 

[BeastMasterW00]

Ah, the eternal diet thing. This is a real challenge with exotic animals, and even pets, domestic animals, and humans. What IS the perfect and proper diet for a given species? What they eat in the wild is what they are used to, but even wild animals often suffer dietary ailments.

Redfoots are a great example. Field notes almost always mention eating proteins and weird things. Like Carl said, this includes bird feet and beaks, but also includes fox scat, and lots of termites. The surprising thing, to me, is that the largest and most consistent finding is butterflies! Its kinda weird to think of the lowly tortoise as a significant butterfly predator! The problem is that too many people and even well-meaning authors, have interpreted ;eating some forms of protein' as 'eating real meat' and include meat as part of the diet.

Now, we are not going to give our torts butterflies and chicken feet, so the question becomes what is an appropriate substitute? This gets tricky since we really don't know what their real protein needs are based on hard research. We can make some darn good educated guesses based on what we know about other species and the answer may be a bit surprising... they probably don't need any meat proteins. in captivity

You see, the places most tortoise species like this live are warm, humid, and experience a lot of rain (even though the Amazon is in the middle of a pretty horrific drought). This washes the nutrients out of the thin soil, so the plants tend to be a low in nutritional value, except the seeds and fruits which we will get to in a moment. A lot like the Venus Flytrap, they eat meat because they cannot get proteins, etc., from the soil or plant life.

Most of the foods we have access to, on the other hand, are pretty nutrient rich, including being high in proteins. (FYI- there IS a difference between plant and meat proteins, there just isn't any evidence that tortoise biology cares about the difference.)

So... DO THEY NEED MEAT PROTEIN? Almost certainly not, but an occasional SMALL 'meaty' treat may be good insurance. I would suggest a low-fat option, like good quality diet cat food (canned or kibble), a little poultry, or (if you are OK with the bowels they cause) some egg or oily fish. Home-made jerky made from some low-fat meat would probably be a great treat for these guys if you are into that.

Fruits. This is a really fascinating element. Field researchers find that redfoots eat a LOT of fruit- 70% or more of their diet is fruit when they can find it. (Fruiting seasons in the tropics are different than in most of the US- different trees fruit at different times, so they may not be a fruiting tree within a mile now, and the next week may rain fruit on you.) When most American authors hear 'fruit' they think 'sweet and juicy plant things'. When a scientist says 'fruit', they mean the 'fruiting body' of a plant- where the ovaries are fertilized, store nutrients, and prepare to create a new plant. Squash, pumpkins, cucumbers, peppers, peas, beans, nuts, and grains are all actually fruits (but tortoises cannot and should not eat every kind of fruit, so don't go tossing hot peppers in there!)

Tropical plants put most of their effort and energy in fruiting- that is where they put most of the meager nutrients they can suck out of the ground, so most tropical animals depend on fruits. Most of the fruits a wild redfoot eats are figs, cactus fruit, and a huge amount of stuff from plants most of us have never heard of. One tastes like a hard sour cherry, another is described as 'potato like'- hardly the sweet stuff we are used to. These fruits are not as full of simple sugars as our grocery store fruits, but have a lot more calcium, protein, and other nutrients.

How do we use this information? Basically, we feed our tortoises a nice, colorful mixed salad. Some bell pepper, some squash, mushrooms, peas, and the like- in whole form when possible or cut just enough to help smaller torts get a good bite on them.

I keep reading articles that state to avoid grains, what grains would you recommend? She loves green beans! Got some fresh ones today in with her mustard greens. Totally open to any and all advice. Thank you all so much!

 

[Madkins007]

I don't recommend grains per se but have often wondered if a little wheat germ, chia seeds, or crushed flax seed might offer benefits. I've read of people offering whole grain breads and such but really don't see much benefit from it. I also don't recommend oily fruits like olives and avocados, hot fruits like hot peppers, sugary fruits like banana and grapes (OK as rare treats), and most citrus although naval oranges are high in calcium and mine liked them as a rare snack.

However, when you are feeding things that have fairly soft seeds in it, like pumpkin or bell pepper, leave the seeds in it.

 

[BeastMasterW00]

I don't recommend grains per se but have often wondered if a little wheat germ, chia seeds, or crushed flax seed might offer benefits. I've read of people offering whole grain breads and such but really don't see much benefit from it. I also don't recommend oily fruits like olives and avocados, hot fruits like hot peppers, sugary fruits like banana and grapes (OK as rare treats), and most citrus although naval oranges are high in calcium and mine liked them as a rare snack.

However, when you are feeding things that have fairly soft seeds in it, like pumpkin or bell pepper, leave the seeds in it.

Thank you again so much for all the advice. I have great news , her stool is already beginning to get better! Give her some mango this morning and some mashed pumpkin boy oh boy did she love the pumpkin!!! I'm going to have to take her in for an examination now because it seems like my initial worry has come true she does indeed have a respiratory issue. She's whistling a bit when she breathes, kinda like a kid with a stuff nose. Poor girl.

 

[MPRC]

I know I already put in my 2cents for Pumpkin, but also the ZooMed forest tortoise food seems to really firm up my torts if I have fed them too much rich junk recently. I soak that with some alfalfa pellets and add it to their salads. I can only use a tiny bit with 2 of my torts because they wont eat it otherwise, but my 3rd one loves it. go figure, shes the one with consistent poops.

 

[BeastMasterW00]

I know I already put in my 2cents for Pumpkin, but also the ZooMed forest tortoise food seems to really firm up my torts if I have fed them too much rich junk recently. I soak that with some alfalfa pellets and add it to their salads. I can only use a tiny bit with 2 of my torts because they wont eat it otherwise, but my 3rd one loves it. go figure, shes the one with consistent poops.

Thanks! I've been on the hunt for the Alfalfa pellets. Where do you find yours?

 

[MPRC]

I might not be much help - my rat refuses to eat them from her kibble so I just pick them out. I know my feed store has them along with a lot of other odd combos like Bermuda grass pellets and other things that I guess they use to supplement old livestock who might not eat as well anymore.

 

[BeastMasterW00]

I might not be much help - my rat refuses to eat them from her kibble so I just pick them out. I know my feed store has them along with a lot of other odd combos like Bermuda grass pellets and other things that I guess they use to supplement old livestock who might not eat as well anymore.

Thank you!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Ah, the eternal diet thing. This is a real challenge with exotic animals, and even pets, domestic animals, and humans. What IS the perfect and proper diet for a given species? What they eat in the wild is what they are used to, but even wild animals often suffer dietary ailments.

Redfoots are a great example. Field notes almost always mention eating proteins and weird things. Like Carl said, this includes bird feet and beaks, but also includes fox scat, and lots of termites. The surprising thing, to me, is that the largest and most consistent finding is butterflies! Its kinda weird to think of the lowly tortoise as a significant butterfly predator! The problem is that too many people and even well-meaning authors, have interpreted ;eating some forms of protein' as 'eating real meat' and include meat as part of the diet.

Now, we are not going to give our torts butterflies and chicken feet, so the question becomes what is an appropriate substitute? This gets tricky since we really don't know what their real protein needs are based on hard research. We can make some darn good educated guesses based on what we know about other species and the answer may be a bit surprising... they probably don't need any meat proteins. in captivity

You see, the places most tortoise species like this live are warm, humid, and experience a lot of rain (even though the Amazon is in the middle of a pretty horrific drought). This washes the nutrients out of the thin soil, so the plants tend to be a low in nutritional value, except the seeds and fruits which we will get to in a moment. A lot like the Venus Flytrap, they eat meat because they cannot get proteins, etc., from the soil or plant life.

Most of the foods we have access to, on the other hand, are pretty nutrient rich, including being high in proteins. (FYI- there IS a difference between plant and meat proteins, there just isn't any evidence that tortoise biology cares about the difference.)

So... DO THEY NEED MEAT PROTEIN? Almost certainly not, but an occasional SMALL 'meaty' treat may be good insurance. I would suggest a low-fat option, like good quality diet cat food (canned or kibble), a little poultry, or (if you are OK with the bowels they cause) some egg or oily fish. Home-made jerky made from some low-fat meat would probably be a great treat for these guys if you are into that.

Fruits. This is a really fascinating element. Field researchers find that redfoots eat a LOT of fruit- 70% or more of their diet is fruit when they can find it. (Fruiting seasons in the tropics are different than in most of the US- different trees fruit at different times, so they may not be a fruiting tree within a mile now, and the next week may rain fruit on you.) When most American authors hear 'fruit' they think 'sweet and juicy plant things'. When a scientist says 'fruit', they mean the 'fruiting body' of a plant- where the ovaries are fertilized, store nutrients, and prepare to create a new plant. Squash, pumpkins, cucumbers, peppers, peas, beans, nuts, and grains are all actually fruits (but tortoises cannot and should not eat every kind of fruit, so don't go tossing hot peppers in there!)

Tropical plants put most of their effort and energy in fruiting- that is where they put most of the meager nutrients they can suck out of the ground, so most tropical animals depend on fruits. Most of the fruits a wild redfoot eats are figs, cactus fruit, and a huge amount of stuff from plants most of us have never heard of. One tastes like a hard sour cherry, another is described as 'potato like'- hardly the sweet stuff we are used to. These fruits are not as full of simple sugars as our grocery store fruits, but have a lot more calcium, protein, and other nutrients.

How do we use this information? Basically, we feed our tortoises a nice, colorful mixed salad. Some bell pepper, some squash, mushrooms, peas, and the like- in whole form when possible or cut just enough to help smaller torts get a good bite on them.

I just saw chicken feet at my local grocery store. I thought maybe they were for folks on a diet.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

You know what would be a short thread?
Stuff a Redfoot WONT eat!

 

[MPRC]

You know what would be a short thread?
Stuff a Redfoot WONT eat!

I was excited that my little redfoot was grazing in the yard yesterday...until I realized she found a real treat...a DEAD SNAKE!

It had fallen victim to the tractor and was jerky when she found it.

 

[BeastMasterW00]

I just saw chicken feet at my local grocery store. I thought maybe they were for folks on a diet.

Our dogs love them!!

 

[newCH]

Well, Seldon's favorite protein meal is a teaspoon of Solid White Albacore Tuna packed in water on his spring mix.
Must be the fishy smell, he runs to it !

 

[BeastMasterW00]

Does anyone ever give their torts minnows to catch? I.E. In their water dish or wading area.