Help needed

[Carlaandrew]

Hi all I am at my wits end and need any advice possible, I have a baby spur thigh tortoise it’s 6 months old iv had it since he was a month old, he was with 3 other then separated 3 months ago since then it’s not grown well its shell hasn’t his arms n head have. It barely eats literally couple bites a day sometimes don’t eat at all. Has pooped and iv noticed 3G weight increase since two weeks ago. Now it’s set up… it was in table but couldn’t hold the heat so it’s now been in Viv since Xmas temp is 35 hot end 24 cool end humidity is between 60-70 daily soaks and food is weeds dandelion kale and pellets. Both uvb and heat lamp correct distance from his shell. I’m sure I’m doing everything the right way I just can’t figure out why it isn’t growing much. It’s not very active either mainly sleeps all day in his little hide near the warm end. Thank you

 

[Carlaandrew]

Photos of set up

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Welcome to the forum! Have you tracked the weight of the tortoise?

 

[Carlaandrew]

Welcome to the forum! Have you tracked the weight of the tortoise?

Hi yes when I weighed it 2 weeks ago was 13g yesterday he weighed 16g

 

[COmtnLady]

Every species of tortoise needs it to be warm and humid for the first two to three YEARS of life. Temps need to be above 85F/30C, preferably closer to 90sF/35C, all over, no "cool side". Humidity needs to be at 85-90%.

Since this little one seems to not be thriving, keeping it warmer and in higher humidity is very important.

Are you keeping the soaks lukewarm, 95F/35C, the entire half hour the baby is in it ?
Because the water is only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together, it cools off far too fast and it is very important to keep this little one warm at ALL times. Refresh the water with warmer water every few minutes to keep the temp up.


Please post many pictures of your little one. Side-views, top, bottom. In addition focus in on the growth or lack of that you are are seeing - basically let us see specifically what you are concerned about.




Let's see what some of the more experienced members suggest. @Yvonne G @Tom @wellington @ZEROPILOT








For future reference

For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...

Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[COmtnLady]

P.S. that blue dish is dangerous. While it is a good size it is not safe.

First - the sides are too steep and abrupt, too difficult for a small tortoise to get into and out of.
Second - the surface is too slippery, Your tortoise can't get adequate traction, its feet will slide out from under it if it does manage to get inside the dish. The side-slipping is hard on joints and tendons (similar to when you lose footing on slick ice and it jerks on your hip or knee).
Third - When small ones try to get out and the surface they are on is slippery, they can easily fall sideways or/and topple over backwards. If you would not happen to notice quickly, they can become exhausted trying to right themselves, and even drown.

Better would be a terracotta plant saucer of the same size Always use a new one, used ones can have absorbed chemicals and residue from a plant's fertilizer that are not good for your tortoise. Sink it down into the substrate so that there isn't a wall to climb over (a smidge above the top surface of your substrate is a good idea to slow down the "tracking-in" of substrate). The terracotta provides good traction, plus the sides lean outward and are not as much of a barrier as vertical sides. They are inexpensive. There is the added benefit of helping keep the tortoise's nails worn down to an appropriate length.







What is the thing on the rear left that says Vivexotic?





.

 

[Tom]

It sounds like you got things right now, but the cool dry open table for those first few months did damage. How much damage? Time will tell. It might take many months for the baby to get over the initial incorrect conditions. Just do your best and hope.

 

[Carlaandrew]

P.S. that blue dish is dangerous. While it is a good size it is not safe.

First - the sides are too steep and abrupt, too difficult for a small tortoise to get into and out of.
Second - the surface is too slippery, Your tortoise can't get adequate traction, its feet will slide out from under it if it does manage to get inside the dish. The side-slipping is hard on joints and tendons (similar to when you lose footing on slick ice and it jerks on your hip or knee).
Third - When small ones try to get out and the surface they are on is slippery, they can easily fall sideways or/and topple over backwards. If you would not happen to notice quickly, they can become exhausted trying to right themselves, and even drown.

Better would be a terracotta plant saucer of the same size Always use a new one, used ones can have absorbed chemicals and residue from a plant's fertilizer that are not good for your tortoise. Sink it down into the substrate so that there isn't a wall to climb over (a smidge above the top surface of your substrate is a good idea to slow down the "tracking-in" of substrate). The terracotta provides good traction, plus the sides lean outward and are not as much of a barrier as vertical sides. They are inexpensive. There is the added benefit of helping keep the tortoise's nails worn down to an appropriate length.







What is the thing on the rear left that says Vivexotic?





.

Ok thank you I will remove the dish although he never goes in it anyway so it’s not strained his little legs atm but I’ll get it gone and the thing on the left is a vent with a fogger but we haven’t had it on yet was attached in case we needed to up the humidity

 

[Carlaandrew]

Every species of tortoise needs it to be warm and humid for the first two to three YEARS of life. Temps need to be above 85F/30C, preferably closer to 90sF/35C, all over, no "cool side". Humidity needs to be at 85-90%.

Since this little one seems to not be thriving, keeping it warmer and in higher humidity is very important.

Are you keeping the soaks lukewarm, 95F/35C, the entire half hour the baby is in it ?
Because the water is only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together, it cools off far too fast and it is very important to keep this little one warm at ALL times. Refresh the water with warmer water every few minutes to keep the temp up.


Please post many pictures of your little one. Side-views, top, bottom. In addition focus in on the growth or lack of that you are are seeing - basically let us see specifically what you are concerned about.




Let's see what some of the more experienced members suggest. @Yvonne G @Tom @wellington @ZEROPILOT








For future reference

For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...

Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you for your reply so I’ll keep the temps hot now from 35c all day can it go higher than 35 or is 35 the max? Yes I’m constantly changing the water when it has a soak to keep it warm. I’ll get some pics of all sides ect today when he’s woke up

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Do you use a humidifier? What do you use to measure humidity?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Hi yes when I weighed it 2 weeks ago was 13g yesterday he weighed 16g

I assume the others have surpassed him in weight?

 

[COmtnLady]

Ok thank you I will remove the dish although he never goes in it anyway so it’s not strained his little legs atm but I’ll get it gone and the thing on the left is a vent with a fogger but we haven’t had it on yet was attached in case we needed to up the humidity

Never use a fogger, mister, or sprayer. They put droplets into the air, not humidity. It settles on the surface of your substrate, then evaporates, creating a convection that drops the temperature, which means your temps and humidity are going up and down, not staying steady like you want.

Look at the nose holes (nares) on your tortoise's face; they are quite small and most droplets are larger than they are, which means it is hard for tortoises to breathe when you spray, fog, or mist. It can cause respiratory illnesses - its like inhaling water when you are swimming (drowning by definition is suffocation by inhaling a liquid) , Droplets can really stress out their lungs.

Seal off that opening and the one over near the Hide... and all other openings. Any opening will make your humidity difficult to maintain.


It will take him a while to realize he can get into the water after the wall of the blue dish's edge taught him he couldn't get over it. Not being able to access the water also means he is dehydrated. It could be a big part of his health problems.



It is ok for the temperature to fluctuate by a couple degrees, but over 35C/95F is a bit too hot. Aim for 32C/90F until he has rallied and seems ok again.

 

[Carlaandrew]

Do you use a humidifier? What do you use to measure humidity?

No and I have 2 prong temp/humidity gages one either end

 

[Carlaandrew]

These

 

[Carlaandrew]

Every species of tortoise needs it to be warm and humid for the first two to three YEARS of life. Temps need to be above 85F/30C, preferably closer to 90sF/35C, all over, no "cool side". Humidity needs to be at 85-90%.

Since this little one seems to not be thriving, keeping it warmer and in higher humidity is very important.

Are you keeping the soaks lukewarm, 95F/35C, the entire half hour the baby is in it ?
Because the water is only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together, it cools off far too fast and it is very important to keep this little one warm at ALL times. Refresh the water with warmer water every few minutes to keep the temp up.


Please post many pictures of your little one. Side-views, top, bottom. In addition focus in on the growth or lack of that you are are seeing - basically let us see specifically what you are concerned about.




Let's see what some of the more experienced members suggest. @Yvonne G @Tom @wellington @ZEROPILOT








For future reference

For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...

Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

These

Let's try the get that up to 85%. You are using Coco coir right? The substrate looks a bit dry in the photo, it is suggested to pour water in to the corners and hand pack the damp coir to avoid too dusty or dry coir.

Some people prefer a layer of orchid bark over the coir, some find that they can't keep the coir moist and not dusty and prefer to user orchird bark or cypress mulch instead.

Like COmtnLady said, try to seal extra vents and openings in order to get the humidity up.

It barely eats literally couple bites a day sometimes don’t eat at all.

As for appetite, had it always been like this or did it start when switching enclosures for example? Try hand feeding right after soaking, it is when they are most likely to eat.

 

[Carlaandrew]

Let's try the get that up to 85%. You are using Coco coir right? The substrate looks a bit dry in the photo, it is suggested to pour water in to the corners and hand pack the damp coir to avoid too dusty or dry coir.

Some people prefer a layer of orchid bark over the coir, some find that they can't keep the coir moist and not dusty and prefer to user orchird bark or cypress mulch instead.

Like COmtnLady said, try to seal extra vents and openings in order to get the humidity up.


As for appetite, had it always been like this or did it start when switching enclosures for example? Try hand feeding right after soaking, it is when they are most likely to eat.

Ok would misting the soil help? I can do that or as you suggested wet each corner then mix. It’s coco coir all through out, it’s always been like this never really eaten a lot, I bathed it this morning and it ate more than yesterday now back in his hide

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Ok would misting the soil help? I can do that or as you suggested wet each corner then mix. It’s coco coir all through out, it’s always been like this never really eaten a lot, I bathed it this morning and it ate more than yesterday now back in his hide

Misting usually provides only a short time fix and after misting humidity quickly drops back. Also, some believe misting while tortoise is in the same enclosure posed the same risks that COmtnLady listed about misters. That is why I only mist when my tortoise is soaking and not in the enclosure, just as an extra precaution.

I would start by wetting the corners and mixing it especially if the coir is dry/dusty and see how it affects the humidity.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Some people prefer a layer of orchid bark over the coir, some find that they can't keep the coir moist and not dusty and prefer to user orchird bark or cypress mulch instead.

Wanted to add that orchid bark might act like a layer of mulch in a garden and thus prevent the need of pouring water as often.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Every species of tortoise needs it to be warm and humid for the first two to three YEARS of life. Temps need to be above 85F/30C, preferably closer to 90sF/35C, all over, no "cool side". Humidity needs to be at 85-90%.

Since this little one seems to not be thriving, keeping it warmer and in higher humidity is very important.

Are you keeping the soaks lukewarm, 95F/35C, the entire half hour the baby is in it ?
Because the water is only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together, it cools off far too fast and it is very important to keep this little one warm at ALL times. Refresh the water with warmer water every few minutes to keep the temp up.


Please post many pictures of your little one. Side-views, top, bottom. In addition focus in on the growth or lack of that you are are seeing - basically let us see specifically what you are concerned about.




Let's see what some of the more experienced members suggest. @Yvonne G @Tom @wellington @ZEROPILOT








For future reference

For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...

Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...

tortoiseforum.org

Oop there seems to have been some confusion on species and I can see why, the original post says ‘spur thighed’ I know a lot of folks call sulcatas African spur thighed, but this poster here has a Mediterranean spur thighed tortoise, aka a Greek tortoise, as such, it’s ok to have a ‘cooler end’ for these guys, 85f all over with similar night temps would be too warm for this guy. Everything about soaking and humidity is spot on though! Babies thrive in high humidity!

I can see it’s already been covered on why foggers/misters aren’t the best to use, second everything said, the evaporation effect causes temperature fluctuations too. Sealing the vents and opting for the lukewarm water pour method(be sure your base is protected) to keep on top of your lower layers been nice and damp is best, you should see a good amount of condensate building on the glass

I know this thread says Herman’s and Russians, but care advice still applies, it covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc), correct levels, importance of a closed chamber for younger tortoises(only way to maintain the humidity you need), appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything, and a really handy diet link to check out! If ever going with a greenhouse, the lower the ceiling height, whilst still allowing for recommended bulb height, the better, but the viv you have is actually a much more efficient starter option!

Housing young Russian/Herman

Hello there! In this thread, I’m going to include some information on an effective way to tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size once your baby is an adult. I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to break down any information...

tortoiseforum.org

This covers a bunch of other closed chamber options, some do work better than other, the kind of viv you have is one of the best choices! There’s a place called Southdown aquatics in the uk that make custom sizes should you need something come upgrade time, it’d maintain your temperatures easily year round, especially the temps in colder months! It’s almost impossible to keep them where needed with an open top in our uk winters should you choose not to brumate

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

tortoiseforum.org

This one is good to go over and keep on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope your little one starts to thrive for you soon!