Help us figure out age and health?

[GeckoEcko]

This is TP he was given to us a month or two ago in a glass aquarium and he wasn’t being cared for very well. We fixed him up to the best of our ability but we are very curious as to his/her age? And if anyone has suggestions for how to keep her/him healthy please share. We keep him inside for now because there are cats and dogs and rough terrain outside and he’s very small. He had a three area turtle table and it’s between 60 and 90% humid depending on the area. He gets soaked every other day. The heat lamp we have doesn’t seem like it’s getting warm enough so wondering if anyone has recommendations? We have a 100 watt and it’s barely at 94 when all the way against the cage.

Thanks for your help!

 

[wellington]

Hard to tell the age of tortoises, specially if not housed and cared for properly.
As for your enclosure, it is also wrong and too small. They aren't good for tortoises at all. Your tort needs a closed chamber enclosure with 80% humidity
Basking area of 95-100 with an incandescent FLOOD bulb.
Tube fluorescent for uvb and ceramic heat emitter for added day heat and night heat.
Temps never below 80.
Measure his bottom shell from the tail area to head area. That would give us an idea of where to guess his age at.

 

[TammyJ]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

As wellington has said, your set up could do with changing up to give your guy the best possible chance to thrive❤️ welcome to the forum!!

 

[GeckoEcko]

Hard to tell the age of tortoises, specially if not housed and cared for properly.
As for your enclosure, it is also wrong and too small. They aren't good for tortoises at all. Your tort needs a closed chamber enclosure with 80% humidity
Basking area of 95-100 with an incandescent FLOOD bulb.
Tube fluorescent for uvb and ceramic heat emitter for added day heat and night heat.
Temps never below 80.
Measure his bottom shell from the tail area to head area. That would give us an idea of where to guess his age at.

Part of the cage is enclosed and the humidity and temp are on point I googled incandescent flood bulb and that is what we have. Plus we are in southern cali so the entire room is hot and humid. He has the on wheels table so it can be wheeled outdoors when someone is able to be around like weekends and what not and the table is very big I don’t think the picture did it justice… only showed one section.

I was considering the tube uvb but my question is how do I know if it’s too close? When I put the bigger uvb bulb in he buried himself in the soil and I thought maybe it was too bright or too close? Are the mercury bulbs a bad idea then? The temp in his basking spot is between 95 and 100 depending on outside temp and the humidity in the hot spot is 69% in the other exposed section it’s 75% temp is 86 here and in the enclosed hide part where he sleeps it’s at 98% and temp is at 80 (during day) and he had a ceramic heat lamp that we have yet to use because even with the windows open it hasn’t dropped below 74 in his table.

 

[GeckoEcko]

He’s only a few inches long and the table is 40 in deep and 55in wide … that seems plenty big enough to me but we do have another one that we can attach to this one we weren’t planning to do all that until he’s bigger. Does that mean he would need more lighting too? Or two heat spots? I know the lamps we have are leftover from the lady who gave them to us and I ordered another one that I had to send back and am waiting on newer ones that aren’t made for aquariums they haven’t come yet but I will order the tube uvb just again wondering how to know or measure the appropriate distance. We can get plexiglass or something to put on top of his cage but how would he breath? It is very hot where we are like 100 degrees daily and I don’t turn the air on where he is so he doesn’t dry out but I’m worried he would overheat… I had to drop down to a smaller bulb oh I’ll attach photos of the bulb we are using please do tell me if that’s wrong and how to fix it? Can u post a link to what is the correct enclosure and where to buy it how to fix this one? Also which light fixtures are the right ones? Is the uvb light down below the wrong thing? Thank you for taking the time we are new to tortoises and just want to keep him healthy. He’s so sweet and we’ve bonded, we love him now.

Thanks again attaching photos of the bulbs. If it’s the incorrect heat bulb can you also link to what one you suggest? The uvb he has is actually 10.0 not 5.0 but same brand

 

[wellington]

Yes, I seen the whole enclosure and it's not big enough for a sulcata of yours size. A small section/hide of high humidity works for adults not one your size.
If you get him outside 3-4 times a week for about an hour each time, you don't need inside uvb at least until you can't take him out any more.

 

[wellington]

No on both bulbs. One is a SPOT BULB, you need FLOOD. The other is a cfl(coil) bulb and can cause eye and skin problems and usually doesn't give out good uvb.

 

[GeckoEcko]

As wellington has said, your set up could do with changing up to give your guy the best possible chance to thrive❤️ welcome to the forum!!

Can you send an example of the correct enclosure? Enclosed entirely but not glass would look like what? Would it have wood all the way across and how would the light get in? Is it ok for the light to go through plexiglass like what is the top of the enclosure typically made out of? Do you have links you can share or photos or something so we can get an idea of what we need to do? Like do we just replace the metal part with.,. Wood fabric plexiglass? Does he need a fully new enclosure?

 

[GeckoEcko]

No on both bulbs. One is a SPOT BULB, you need FLOOD. The other is a cfl(coil) bulb and can cause eye and skin problems and usually doesn't give out good uvb.

Can you please post a link to the correct bulb? And ok so he needs a new enclosure. What size should it be and what should it be made out of? A picture or description of something appropriate would be so helpful

 

[wellington]

Solar Basking Lamps - Arcadia Reptile

Our specialist lamps have been created to mostly emit Infra-Red energy (mostly IR-A). These are the wavelengths that allow reptiles to thrive. These lamps are not designed to emit visible light and must not be used to illuminate buildings. For use with Reptiles, Amphibians, inverts and Plants...

www.arcadiareptile.com

As for enclosure size, attach the other one you have or try a pop up green house that you can add on to what you have or pop it over what you have.

 

[GeckoEcko]

Solar Basking Lamps - Arcadia Reptile

Our specialist lamps have been created to mostly emit Infra-Red energy (mostly IR-A). These are the wavelengths that allow reptiles to thrive. These lamps are not designed to emit visible light and must not be used to illuminate buildings. For use with Reptiles, Amphibians, inverts and Plants...

www.arcadiareptile.com

View attachment 374361View attachment 374362
As for enclosure size, attach the other one you have or try a pop up green house that you can add on to what you have or pop it over what you have.
View attachment 374363

Thank you! That is incredibly helpful! We will try that. If we do attach the other side of the table would you recommend more than one uvb light and flood light? Also how do we know how big of an enclosure he needs? The bottom of his shell measures a bit under 2 in long so he’s very tiny fits in one child size hand. Is there a standard amount of space they need before they can move to living outdoors? Also when will he be big enough to move outside and how much space will he need outdoors?

 

[wellington]

No, only one flood and you can hang the uvb bulb by it, so when he bask, he's getting uvb. The uvb only has to be on for 4 hours starting at around 11/12.
You can add regular led bulbs for more light. If more heat is needed, use ceramic heat emitter for night heat too. Temps should not go below 80.
Around 10 inches he can live outside. That's usually around 3 years, sometimes 2 for a sulcata.

 

[wellington]

If you double the enclosure size, that should last you until he can go outside to live. But it should be a closed chamber until that time
He already is pyramiding, so you need to stop it and get new growth growing smooth. That's harder than starting out smooth.

 

[GeckoEcko]

If you double the enclosure size, that should last you until he can go outside to live. But it should be a closed chamber until that time
He already is pyramiding, so you need to stop it and get new growth growing smooth. That's harder than starting out smooth.

How can you fix the pyramiding? Or why does that happen?

 

[wellington]

You can't reverse it. But raising him until he is the 10 inches in the high humidity and using the correct bulbs prevent it.
You are now trying to stop it from getting worse and the new growth, grow in smooth. If you do this, as an adult, you will hardly tell that he ever pyramided.
That's why the closed chamber, high humidity and the proper bulbs are so important. Of course so is a proper diet and room to roam to build muscle and keep insides working properly.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for this guy until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give you some ideas! You may get away with the base you have, but I’ll paste it all anyway🙂

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 80-85, not dropping lower than 80 at night all over.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer as the basking light, providing shady areas with hides and such.

If the floodlight isn’t enough to bump up the over enclosure temperature, you could add a CHE(ceramic heat emitter)or two depending on the size you go for, they’re a non light emitting heat bulb that people use to help make heat up/night heat. Again if it’s dropping below the 80’s at night, a CHE is a good idea. Always run any ceramic bulbs on a thermostat, you’ll set the thermostat for around 80, plug the ceramic(s) into the thermostat and plug the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be on 24/7, but the thermostat will only turn on the ceramic(s) if the temperature drops below 80, and will keep them off if the temperature is fine.
As you’re from a warm climate, I’d do temperature gun checks with the floodlight running and do checks at night to see if you need the ceramics, if you have ac you might need them to help control the temperature for an indoor enclosure.

Dome fittings do help in projecting the heat down, just make sure to never solely rely on the clamp fittings that can come with them, they can fail, so it’s always best to hang them securely👍

Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems.

Humidity for young growing tortoises benefits when maintained around 80%, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have for now. I’d personally go for at least roughly a 8x4 foot to last you up till they can live outside.

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor. Bear in mind the ones pictured I don’t think are personally big enough to house this tortoise, they’re just to give you an idea.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame! Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for uv I recommend) then secure with cable ties&chains.
I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy.

I think for the size you’ll need to go, you may struggle to find a topper, in that case you could maybe throw some pvc covering over the stands if you can’t find one, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer large enough for the tortoise to soak in, is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea, and again these particular ones look too small for your tortoise imo, but hopefully they help inspire an idea👍

Give it up to a week for all the materials to off gas, running the lights and all, once there no odour it’s safe for use😊

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct🙂

Wishing you all the best from the uk🥰

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Can you send an example of the correct enclosure? Enclosed entirely but not glass would look like what? Would it have wood all the way across and how would the light get in? Is it ok for the light to go through plexiglass like what is the top of the enclosure typically made out of? Do you have links you can share or photos or something so we can get an idea of what we need to do? Like do we just replace the metal part with.,. Wood fabric plexiglass? Does he need a fully new enclosure?

The lights can’t shine through any kind of covering, don’t worry about there not looking like they’ll be enough air flow or anything, it’s not air tight, opening to do daily husbandries is more than enough air exchange, hopefully my other reply helps you out.
Any further questions please ask away😊

 

[GeckoEcko]

Thank you everyone for all your helpful advice. I have a very long list of to do’s and after it’s done I will post back here to make sure I’ve gotten everything correct.

Thanks again everyone is it ok. To put real plants in the babies enclosure or should that wait till they’re older and also should we be giving him calcium or vitamins? I’m kind of worried that he was cared for so poorly (they didn’t even have a water fridge for him) and that it may have done damage.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

is it ok. To put real plants in the babies enclosure or should that wait till they’re older and also should we be giving him calcium or vitamins?

It is ok to put real plants with the baby, you just have to make sure that they are safe plants. So non toxic plants to tortoises with no fertilizers or pesticides. The tortoise might of course trample all over the plants. @Alex and the Redfoot has some good ideas about adding plants to the enclosure minimizing the damage done by tortoise to the plant.

I would say that calcium only will be sufficient, and of course a good quality UVB bulb for vitamin D.