Help with enclosure

[Omniceye]

Hello, I'm a first time tortoise owner. Recently became the proud father of a 5 month old Leopard Tortoise. However due to the short notice I've thrown together what I could until I can build something better.

I'm using a large fish tank for now, and made some panels for the top to better keep in the humidity. The substrate is reptisoil mixed with cypress mulch. And I have a closed container lined with Sphagnum moss as a hide.

The current issue I have noticed is condensation from my fogger. I've read in other threads that if you are getting condensation then your air flow in the enclosure isn't good enough. (Forgot to take a picture of that before i turned off the fogger. I'll upload it when it happens again.)

I'm sure there are other things that I can improve on but I'm not really even sure where to start. Any advice I can get would be a great help. I've included a picture of the little guy I took when I first picked him up.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello and welcome!

Some general things, not leopard-specific:
1. Moss needs to be removed. Hatchling get tangled in it and when (not if) they eat it, it may cause lethal impaction.
2. Water dish should be replaced with a terracota saucer (like the one you use for feeding). This ramped bowls are flipping and drowning hazard.
3. To keep humidity high - pour water in the enclosure corners, fogger is usually not needed.
4. Condensat builds where hot humid air contacts cold surfaces (like glass). Unfortunately, I don't know if something can be done about it.
5. I'm afraid that lightning/heating setup might be wrong. General recommendation is to have T5 HO (long straight tube) for UV, incandescent lamp for basking zone and ceramic heat emitter for nighttime ambient heating (this is detailed in the post I've linked below).

You can check excellent posts by Tom about general tortoise care and more specic desert tortoises care sheet: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/ (care sheet link is at the end of that post).

Please, don't hesitate to ask questions (checking items before buying, for example).

 

[wellington]

I second what Alex and the RedFoot posted.

 

[Omniceye]

Hello and welcome!

Some general things, not leopard-specific:
1. Moss needs to be removed. Hatchling get tangled in it and when (not if) they eat it, it may cause lethal impaction.
2. Water dish should be replaced with a terracota saucer (like the one you use for feeding). This ramped bowls are flipping and drowning hazard.
3. To keep humidity high - pour water in the enclosure corners, fogger is usually not needed.
4. Condensat builds where hot humid air contacts cold surfaces (like glass). Unfortunately, I don't know if something can be done about it.
5. I'm afraid that lightning/heating setup might be wrong. General recommendation is to have T5 HO (long straight tube) for UV, incandescent lamp for basking zone and ceramic heat emitter for nighttime ambient heating (this is detailed in the post I've linked below).

You can check excellent posts by Tom about general tortoise care and more specic desert tortoises care sheet: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/ (care sheet link is at the end of that post).

Please, don't hesitate to ask questions (checking items before buying, for example).

Thank you for the reply. I will remove the moss right away. Thats the first ive heard about that.

How much water should I be pouring into the corners of the substrate?

There was so much conflicting info regarding lighting/heating that I ended up using what was recommended by our pet store. Afterwards I started seeing the T5 HO recommendations.

 

[Tom]

Thank you for the reply. I will remove the moss right away. Thats the first ive heard about that.

How much water should I be pouring into the corners of the substrate?

There was so much conflicting info regarding lighting/heating that I ended up using what was recommended by our pet store. Afterwards I started seeing the T5 HO recommendations.

Read that thread. It will explain why the pet store info is wrong. Down near the bottom is a heating and lighting breakdown and a leopard tortoise care sheet. Questions are welcome.

 

[Omniceye]

Read that thread. It will explain why the pet store info is wrong. Down near the bottom is a heating and lighting breakdown and a leopard tortoise care sheet. Questions are welcome.

I appreciate that whole post. I wish I found it before we got our little guy. Would've helped with a lot of prep work haha.

Hello and welcome!

Some general things, not leopard-specific:
1. Moss needs to be removed. Hatchling get tangled in it and when (not if) they eat it, it may cause lethal impaction.
2. Water dish should be replaced with a terracota saucer (like the one you use for feeding). This ramped bowls are flipping and drowning hazard.
3. To keep humidity high - pour water in the enclosure corners, fogger is usually not needed.
4. Condensat builds where hot humid air contacts cold surfaces (like glass). Unfortunately, I don't know if something can be done about it.
5. I'm afraid that lightning/heating setup might be wrong. General recommendation is to have T5 HO (long straight tube) for UV, incandescent lamp for basking zone and ceramic heat emitter for nighttime ambient heating (this is detailed in the post I've linked below).

You can check excellent posts by Tom about general tortoise care and more specic desert tortoises care sheet: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/ (care sheet link is at the end of that post).

Please, don't hesitate to ask questions (checking items before buying, for example).

I removed as much h of the Sphagnum moss as I could and I feel a bit relieved as while soaking today he finally pooped (first time I've witnessed it) so i know he's not blocked.

Also I added water to the corners as you suggested and the humidity finally stabilized around 85% without the fogger. I also moved the lamp to the center which has helped balance the temperature a bit compared to before.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Great to know that helped and that he is fine!

I would not postpone lightning/heating tweaks, though. If you have a mercury vapour bulb, for example (all-in-one wonder for UVB, heat and light) - this might provoke pyramiding easily (bumpy shell). Let's start with an outline of what you have and then decide if any urgency is needed.

 

[Omniceye]

Great to know that helped and that he is fine!

I would not postpone lightning/heating tweaks, though. If you have a mercury vapour bulb, for example (all-in-one wonder for UVB, heat and light) - this might provoke pyramiding easily (bumpy shell). Let's start with an outline of what you have and then decide if any urgency is needed.

I'm currently using a double lamp. I'm not exactly sure what the bulbs are but i do know its not the mercury vapor bulb. 1 is a heat bulb and the other is UV that I bought separately. I do plan to change this to one of the Long straight. Bulbs that were recommended in the link you gave as soon as I can find one or the snow outside melts enough for us to order one

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

If the heat lamp is an incandescent flood lamp - it's fine. Spot lamps and halogen - are not.

The UV lamp is probably "compact flourescent" (spiral-like). They sometimes cause eye damage, hence are not recommended on this forum. I unfortunately don't know yet, what are pre-conditions for that and how (if possible) to make them safe.

You can make a photo of labels on the lamps - we'll try to figure out, what do you have.

 

[Omniceye]

If the heat lamp is an incandescent flood lamp - it's fine. Spot lamps and halogen - are not.

The UV lamp is probably "compact flourescent" (spiral-like). They sometimes cause eye damage, hence are not recommended on this forum. I unfortunately don't know yet, what are pre-conditions for that and how (if possible) to make them safe.

You can make a photo of labels on the lamps - we'll try to figure out, what do you have.

Here are pictures. I'm pretty sure the heat lamp is also zoo med brand but there isn't a label. I remember the boxes being the same brand.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Yes, the UVB is a compact fluorescent lamp. What is the height of the enclosure? I want to check the recommendations from ZooMed on mounting distance.

Not 100% sure about the heat lamp. It looks like an incandescent, but a spot one, not flood. They have narrow light beam and may be too intense. But the higher distance may alleviate the effect.

 

[Omniceye]

Yes, the UVB is a compact fluorescent lamp. What is the height of the enclosure? I want to check the recommendations from ZooMed on mounting distance.

Not 100% sure about the heat lamp. It looks like an incandescent, but a spot one, not flood. They have narrow light beam and may be too intense. But the higher distance may alleviate the effect.

The height of the enclosure is 20" and the bulbs are 15" from the ground. i have the Boston fern beneath the light for some shade. After testing with both a hygrometer and a separate thermometer, the Hygrometer, which is black plastic, is reaching 98'F in direct light while the digital thermometer, uses the metal needle, is saying 95"F. before moving them the the light the edges were around 85'F and the shaded hides on the sides are a bit cooler around 79.5"F.

I moved the hygrometer an inch to the side when I added the thermometer so I could test side by side and the temp dropped from 98 to 97. Which to me says this is a spot bulb.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thanks for the extensive details!

Temperatures under the heat lamp look good (95-100F is the target - thermometer probe should reach them in an hour or so).

UVB lamp with a dome is within recommended distance. Don't use it more than 3-4 hours a day (it's true for any UVB source). Watch closely your guy - any signs of eye irritation or hiding from the light are the reasons to remove the lamp. Tortoises can do fine for some days/weeks without UVB.

Replace these lamps when possible. Also you might need a ceramic heat emitter with a thermostat to keep temperatures stable at night and day. Also, in a wide dome with a ceramic socket.

Domes, CHE and a lamp fixture for T5HO lamp can sometimes be found in stores like HomeDepot or Lowes, cheaper than in pet shops.

 

[Omniceye]

Thanks for the extensive details!

Temperatures under the heat lamp look good (95-100F is the target - thermometer probe should reach them in an hour or so).

UVB lamp with a dome is within recommended distance. Don't use it more than 3-4 hours a day (it's true for any UVB source). Watch closely your guy - any signs of eye irritation or hiding from the light are the reasons to remove the lamp. Tortoises can do fine for some days/weeks without UVB.

Replace these lamps when possible. Also you might need a ceramic heat emitter with a thermostat to keep temperatures stable at night and day. Also, in a wide dome with a ceramic socket.

Domes, CHE and a lamp fixture for T5HO lamp can sometimes be found in stores like HomeDepot or Lowes, cheaper than in pet shops.

He does hide from the light quite often and i've made hides for him on both sides, so this is good to know. I have a plug timer coming in the mail within the next couple days so hopefully that helps with the UVB.

What are the signs of eye irritation, that way I know what I'm actually looking for? I can say for certain that knowing it's a possibility will most likely make me paranoid about it haha.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Having trouble opening an eye all the way

I just got a Sulcata, my first one. It is about 3.5 to 4 inches, and I was told it is about a year old. The poor thing couldn't open it's eye. I was told to soak it as soon as I got home, so I did and his eye did open up about half way. Now, he keeps rubbing it on his arm and it seems a tiny bit...

tortoiseforum.org

Here is the photos how it can look like - puffness, rubbing the eyes, watery eyes while humidity is high. It's not always related to coil bulbs, though.

Hatchlings do hide a lot, I guess no need to worry. You can switch off the UVB light for 2-3 days and check if his behaviour will change.

Long time ago there were really bad UVB lights, literally burning eyes out. Now it's not an issue, but with CFLs sometimes eye problems are still observed. Perhaps it's when they are mounted incorrectly, with wrong domes and such. With T5 tubes correct setup is easier (unless you push them straight into tortoise' face).

 

[Omniceye]

Having trouble opening an eye all the way

I just got a Sulcata, my first one. It is about 3.5 to 4 inches, and I was told it is about a year old. The poor thing couldn't open it's eye. I was told to soak it as soon as I got home, so I did and his eye did open up about half way. Now, he keeps rubbing it on his arm and it seems a tiny bit...

tortoiseforum.org

Here is the photos how it can look like - puffness, rubbing the eyes, watery eyes while humidity is high. It's not always related to coil bulbs, though.

Hatchlings do hide a lot, I guess no need to worry. You can switch off the UVB light for 2-3 days and check if his behaviour will change.

Long time ago there were really bad UVB lights, literally burning eyes out. Now it's not an issue, but with CFLs sometimes eye problems are still observed. Perhaps it's when they are mounted incorrectly, with wrong domes and such. With T5 tubes correct setup is easier (unless you push them straight into tortoise' face).

Thank you. It doesn't look like any of these symptoms are showing so He should be good. I do plan to get one of the T5 tubes when possible. You don't know how much i appreciate all the help you've given. I'm looking forward to watching this little guy grow.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Please, come back with more questions

A good idea would be to check lamps/fixtures before buying or ordering.