Help with Hermann babies

[Courtwhit97]

Hi guys, this is my first time on this site and unfortunately, for an emergency.

A friend has just brought two very small Hermann's babies to me. I'm the "animal person" of the group but I do not have much experience in caring for tortoises and I am not able to go to the vets right now.

I live on the island of Menorca where the Hermann's occurs naturally and in great numbers, and my friend plucked these two babies from a garden as she feared they would end up being mowed over. She has been keeping them in an aquarium with no top, about 7 cm of soil, with a small water dish, plastic hide, and soaking them daily. They are about 7cm long (will get accurate measurements after I post this) and the last time she weighed them they were 70 and 71 grams. She has kept them outside in the sun and on a diet of dandelion, romaine lettuce, carrot tops and occasional mallow.

Apparently the babies have now been unresponsive for about 20 hours. Their heads and front legs are retracted, back legs out flat. One of the babies has a bulge on the side of their shell, very soft, and what seems to be a crack under said bulge which is leaking a sticky, transparent liquid.

Can I do anything for these babies? Is there any way to tell if they are still alive?

 

[Courtwhit97]

Further details on babies: One is 30gr and 5 cm long, and the other is 31gr and 5.5 cm long. I took the length from the front to the back of the shell, on the underside.

Tortie 2 (31gr) seems to have a gap between two of her shell pieces, which is where the liquid is coming from. Tortie 1's neck looks rather puffed.

Both have very soft spots on the shell.

In the photos, tortie 1 is the lighter and 2 is the darker. I've also attached a photo of the inclosure they were given.

I hope someone can help so these babies can be saved!

 

[TortillaTheTortioise]

How long did the person have the tortoises in that set up?

 

[Courtwhit97]

Hi guys, this is my first time on this site and unfortunately, for an emergency.

A friend has just brought two very small Hermann's babies to me. I'm the "animal person" of the group but I do not have much experience in caring for tortoises and I am not able to go to the vets right now.

I live on the island of Menorca where the Hermann's occurs naturally and in great numbers, and my friend plucked these two babies from a garden as she feared they would end up being mowed over. She has been keeping them in an aquarium with no top, about 7 cm of soil, with a small water dish, plastic hide, and soaking them daily. They are about 7cm long (will get accurate measurements after I post this) and the last time she weighed them they were 70 and 71 grams. She has kept them outside in the sun and on a diet of dandelion, romaine lettuce, carrot tops and occasional mallow.

Apparently the babies have now been unresponsive for about 20 hours. Their heads and front legs are retracted, back legs out flat. One of the babies has a bulge on the side of their shell, very soft, and what seems to be a crack under said bulge which is leaking a sticky, transparent liquid.

Can I do anything for these babies? Is there any way to tell if they are still alive?

I also meant to write here 30 and 31 grams, she last weighed them around a month ago so they have not put any weight on since then.

 

[Courtwhit97]

How long did the person have the tortoises in that set up?

She thinks around a month, I didn't manage to get a certain reply though and she looked awfully guilty.

 

[TortillaTheTortioise]

I'm not a experienced tortoise owner so I'll give my input and I'll tag @Yvonne G


Give them each a warm soak for 15 minutes and see if they drink.
A Aquarium is not a good enclosure to put out in the sun because it can get very hot and hold in heat and the glass can burn through inside. Can u put them inside something else? U need to keep them warm but in the proper environment. Maybe put the tank under moderate shade for the time being

U said she looked guilty? Do u think something might of happend that she didn't say? Maybe a dog got a hold of them?

If they are unresponsive and not eating when u put food in front of them or going into there shells, then there may be no home remedies, and u may need to get them to a vet. Maybe someone on this forum can recommend u a vet in ur area.

 

[TortillaTheTortioise]

https://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/Emergency.htm

Tortoise trust can give a few possibilities, also a good site to get Hermann feeding advice.

Can u get a close pic of the shell leaking area and of the puffy torts neck from top and side view.

 

[Courtwhit97]

I'm not a experienced tortoise owner so I'll give my input and I'll tag @Yvonne G


Give them each a warm soak for 15 minutes and see if they drink.
A Aquarium is not a good enclosure to put out in the sun because it can get very hot and hold in heat and the glass can burn through inside. Can u put them inside something else? U need to keep them warm but in the proper environment. Maybe put the tank under moderate shade for the time being

U said she looked guilty? Do u think something might of happend that she didn't say? Maybe a dog got a hold of them?

If they are unresponsive and not eating when u put food in front of them or going into there shells, then there may be no home remedies, and u may need to get them to a vet. Maybe someone on this forum can recommend u a vet in ur area.

Thanks for your advice. I went ahead and put them in the shade as soon as she brought them to me, my first thought was that it could be heat stroke due to the hot temperatures here and the glass tank.

I did try soaking them for a very short time, but they did not react after a few seconds and i did not want to leave their heads submerged as i imagine they would have drowned.

I will bet that her guilty look was due to her knowing that even though her actions were well intended, wild animals are better off in the wild where they have access to everything that they need.

 

[TortillaTheTortioise]

Thanks for your advice. I went ahead and put them in the shade as soon as she brought them to me, my first thought was that it could be heat stroke due to the hot temperatures here and the glass tank.

I did try soaking them for a very short time, but they did not react after a few seconds and i did not want to leave their heads submerged as i imagine they would have drowned.

I will bet that her guilty look was due to her knowing that even though her actions were well intended, wild animals are better off in the wild where they have access to everything that they need.

I agree about the wild animal thing. I would not leave them in this state without vetinary help as they are not eating or as u said drinking because they not lifting there head. Will u be able to take them to a reptile specialist vet?

 

[Yvonne G]

It sounds like the one that's leaking fluid has died. When they die, the insides start to swell from gas buildup and comes out at a weak spot on the shell. They may both be dead. Do you see any movement at all? If they were in that glass aquarium and outside, maybe the sun got too hot for them.

 

[Courtwhit97]

I agree about the wild animal thing. I would not leave them in this state without vetinary help as they are not eating or as u said drinking because they not lifting there head. Will u be able to take them to a reptile specialist vet?

We don't have a specialized vet out here as exotic pets are not common on the island, but as soon as I am able to I will take them to the wildlife office as the vet there will be the most informed.

 

[Courtwhit97]

It sounds like the one that's leaking fluid has died. When they die, the insides start to swell from gas buildup and comes out at a weak spot on the shell. They may both be dead. Do you see any movement at all? If they were in that glass aquarium and outside, maybe the sun got too hot for them.

That's what I feared. No movement at all. It's been around 23°C (73°F) for the last few days, but I suspect that direct sun and the tall glass walls may have created a greenhouse effect on the poor things.

 

[TortillaTheTortioise]

That's what I feared. No movement at all. It's been around 23°C (73°F) for the last few days, but I suspect that direct sun and the tall glass walls may have created a greenhouse effect on the poor things.

Do u know anyone or go to anyone who has a stethoscope? To check for heart beats. If there is not movment whatsoever, or even eye movement they are probably most likely passed.

 

[C. Nelson]

Sadly, they may have cooked to death.

 

[Tom]

That's what I feared. No movement at all. It's been around 23°C (73°F) for the last few days, but I suspect that direct sun and the tall glass walls may have created a greenhouse effect on the poor things.

That's most likely what happened. So sad. They look great and they were growing very nicely before your friend "rescued" them...