Hibernation Oozing

[Kayti]

Perhaps before telling this kid not to buy a UVB lamp, you should mention that its a very controversial issue, and the vast majority of keepers choose to use a UVB light because there is no harm in using one, but potentially great harm in not.

Lets argue about UVB in a debatable topics thread, and when someone asks for advice, we can just say that there are two sides to the debate currently, and let them decide for themselves based on what makes sense to them.

 

[Merrit321]

After I buy the essentials to get the appropriate space and heat, I'll worry about UVB. Perhaps after Christmas I'll pick up one.

 

[Isa]

A UVB light is very important. I do not think it is correct to tell someone to forget about UVB light. I know some people do not use it but it is important to let the person make the decision and not try to influence it. A lack of UVB light can be very bad for the tortoise.
As Meg said ''for newbies, I recommend only what I have researched as proven. Which are the UVB bulbs'' I agree 150% with her.

 

[Merrit321]

Alright, if I can squeeze out some money after the basics, I'll get one. And are there restrictions on the surface area of water dishes? My tort loves baths, so I figure it would like a large water dish. I might add one of those decorative waterfalls as well.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

I wasen't saying 'dont bother every getting a UVB' i was just saying that in the meantime, i wouldn't worry unduely over it. Yes UVB is a controversial issuse. Yes, you should decide what to do for yourself. I myself do have a UVB light, but i am on the fence as to wether it makes a massive difference or not.

The reality is that for many many people money isn't growing on a tree in thier back yard. I'm not trying to argue, i'm just trying to reassure this kid that if he doesn't manage to afford one, then it (probably, in my oppinion) won't be the end of the world.

 

[-EJ]

It's not controversal. What did keepers use before 10 or so years ago?

I'm one of those keepers that have used them and was one of the first to push them to be used for tortoises... I met with resistance then... was told it is not necessary. While it is not necessary it can be beneficial. The key point... it is not necessary.

So... this young man is financially limited. Should he feed a diet that contains D3 and all the required nutrients or purchase a 35+ dollar bulb that will probably blow within a month or sooner and feed a diet that he hopes contains all the necessary nutrients.

Hopefully I've provided enough information so that this person can decide what makes sense to them.

Perhaps before telling this kid not to buy a UVB lamp, you should mention that its a very controversial issue, and the vast majority of keepers choose to use a UVB light because there is no harm in using one, but potentially great harm in not.

Lets argue about UVB in a debatable topics thread, and when someone asks for advice, we can just say that there are two sides to the debate currently, and let them decide for themselves based on what makes sense to them.

---

What ever is easiest for you to clean and for the tortoise to access. 1/2 inch high flower pot saucers work great.

Alright, if I can squeeze out some money after the basics, I'll get one. And are there restrictions on the surface area of water dishes? My tort loves baths, so I figure it would like a large water dish. I might add one of those decorative waterfalls as well.

 

[Meg90]

Those bulbs have warranties EJ. I have 3 that have been going for months.

Also, 10 years ago tortoises were not offered water, kept on pellets and fed nothing but romaine and iceberg lettuce.

Methods have changed, research has been done. And again, if you are so gung-ho on the D3 method, then DOCUMENT IT. Dosages, how often they are dosed, ages of tortoises, a vets opinion on bone density and some records of blood Ca levels.

Merrit, get a UVB bulb. Tortoises are not cheap to set up. This is a fact. You need to make sure that you give that tortoise what it needs. With one already dead, I would be taking every precaution to make sure that the other one lives a long healthy life. But maybe that's just me. I have paid for everything my animals have, including the 200$ pricetag for each of them out of my own money. I did not get things for free and thus, they have more value to me.

But I will NEVER keep any tortoise intentionally without UVB until I see some rock solid research and proof that the D3 method works.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

Merrit, get a UVB bulb. Tortoises are not cheap to set up. This is a fact. You need to make sure that you give that tortoise what it needs. With one already dead, I would be taking every precaution to make sure that the other one lives a long healthy life. But maybe that's just me. I have paid for everything my animals have, including the 200$ pricetag for each of them out of my own money. I did not get things for free and thus, they have more value to me.

Merit, i urge you to do what is right for YOU and your tortoise. Do not get a UVB bulb because some people tell you to. Weigh up the evidence and do what you choose.

While it is nice that some people have such extra money Meg, and im sure that makes them more have 'more value' to you, this young man happened apon these tortoises. He probably isn't legally old enough to even have a job. For me, there is a difference between want and need. Just because someone does not have the money for a bulb, does not mean that he is hindering his tortoises 'long and healthy life'. Yes, you paid good money for your tortoise, yes tortoises are expensive - but they dont have to be. Spending less money doesn't mean that your tortoise is going to have a horrible life

 

[Meg90]

Opps. Forgot to include that I am a full time college student living on a minimum wage job that I work at part time. But I worked for everything I have. And my animals mean the world to me.

Also, I ADVISE STRONGLY to get a bulb. But if you do not, obviously that's your choice.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

Gees, this isn't some argument over who has the least money and the worst life.

I live alone with my daughter who is 20 months, with no help. I live of savings that i have left from working two jobs while i was doing a full time degree and pregnant. My daughter means the world to me, but unfortunately she sometimes goes without things she 'wants' because often i can barely cover the cost of things she 'needs'. Sometimes, she has beans on toast for her dinner, sometimes she doesn't get 5 fruits a day because fruit is just too expensive. My point is, that my daughter is happy, alive, and thriving and that at the end of the day you do your best and thats all that matters.

Merit, go with your instict and do what you think is best. I think your doing a great job. Your tortoise will probably be fine with whatever you choose.

 

[-EJ]

Not quite true on all counts. Tortoise groups were around long before the internet and the exchange of litterature and information is just as it is today. Highfields first book was 80 of 90 something.

The point... Tortoises have been very successfully kept for well over 100 years.

As to the warranty... have you ever tried to collect on that warranty?

I've had those bulbs burn out the second they come on to lasting over 7 years. The 7 year old bulb was checked out by a friend who is very active in that British UVB group and he found the bulb was producing 5x more UVB than a brand new tube type bulb.

Give me a suggestion as to how to 'document' it. You sound so much like a friend of mine... quite unreasonable. Also... can you provide me with the documentation to dispute my suggestion.

We're running circles here... Need and Beneficial are two different things.

Well... you're a special person.

Those bulbs have warranties EJ. I have 3 that have been going for months.

Also, 10 years ago tortoises were not offered water, kept on pellets and fed nothing but romaine and iceberg lettuce.

Methods have changed, research has been done. And again, if you are so gung-ho on the D3 method, then DOCUMENT IT. Dosages, how often they are dosed, ages of tortoises, a vets opinion on bone density and some records of blood Ca levels.

Merrit, get a UVB bulb. Tortoises are not cheap to set up. This is a fact. You need to make sure that you give that tortoise what it needs. With one already dead, I would be taking every precaution to make sure that the other one lives a long healthy life. But maybe that's just me. I have paid for everything my animals have, including the 200$ pricetag for each of them out of my own money. I did not get things for free and thus, they have more value to me.

But I will NEVER keep any tortoise intentionally without UVB until I see some rock solid research and proof that the D3 method works.

 

[Merrit321]

Ok, ok, I hear both sides of the argument, and if I could, I would get a UVB bulb, but you people are full grown adults! I am a 13 year old with no consistent income, relying on holidays to pay for what I need. Christmas is a few days away. I'll get a UVB bulb then. No more arguing please! I understand it may not be necessary, but it may be helpful, and I don't want another dead tortoise!

 

[-EJ]

You do understand the point about the diet? The easiest products to find is the T-Rex and Monster tortoise diets. I like the Mazuri diet if you can get your hands on it. Many people sell it via mail order.

Ok, ok, I hear both sides of the argument, and if I could, I would get a UVB bulb, but you people are full grown adults! I am a 13 year old with no consistent income, relying on holidays to pay for what I need. Christmas is a few days away. I'll get a UVB bulb then. No more arguing please! I understand it may not be necessary, but it may be helpful, and I don't want another dead tortoise!

 

[ChiKat]

Ok, ok, I hear both sides of the argument, and if I could, I would get a UVB bulb, but you people are full grown adults! I am a 13 year old with no consistent income, relying on holidays to pay for what I need. Christmas is a few days away. I'll get a UVB bulb then. No more arguing please! I understand it may not be necessary, but it may be helpful, and I don't want another dead tortoise!

You seem very mature for your age, and I commend you on wanting to do the best for your tortoise! Even just joining this forum in the first place to ask for help shows how responsible you are.
I'm sorry that your thread has turned into a debate. I hope you understand that we're all very passionate about tortoises and sometimes things can get a little heated when there are disagreements

How else can we help you? Do you need information on diet?
What do you have for your tortoise so far?

 

[Merrit321]

Well, I'll look into the diet (Fed it some green leaf lettuce today) but I just returned from Walmart where I bought a 50 gallon roughneck container. Before I jump the gun, what substrate goes in?

 

[Meg90]

I use aspen.

But do NOT use Cedar chips, or pine. Those are toxic.

Other reccomended substrates are eco earth (coconut fiber), or eco earth and play sand mixed together, Cyprus mulch is also a good choice. You can also just use organic potting soil. Stay away from any soil mixes with fertilizers in them.

 

[Merrit321]

Alright, I'll put some ecoearth in there I suppose. Within the next few years, I plan on making an outdoor pin with cinderblocks and stuff. There I'll either use mulch or soil.

 

[Meg90]

Cinderblocks are a great building medium for outside, I used them too. But for security reasons you should dig about 4-8 inches down in the dirt and bury fencing down around the perimeter of the enclosure so that the tort cannot dig out. They burrow by nature, and if left to their own devices, can escape quickly.

 

[Merrit321]

True. I may have to make a fully wooden box anywho, considering most of my backyard is concrete (apartment complex)

 

[Yvonne G]

Ok, ok, I hear both sides of the argument, and if I could, I would get a UVB bulb, but you people are full grown adults! I am a 13 year old with no consistent income, relying on holidays to pay for what I need. Christmas is a few days away. I'll get a UVB bulb then. No more arguing please! I understand it may not be necessary, but it may be helpful, and I don't want another dead tortoise!

Merrit: You sound like a very mature 13 year old. I congratulate you for being able to see both sides of the argument. Please don't let all this back and forth turn you off from the forum. We truly do like and respect each other and most of the time we all get along just fine. I think you've made a great choice. And we've given you enough information that you can keep your tortoise healthy! Welcome to the forum!!!