Hibernation

[The Dark Hippy]

Hello. I am a fairly new tortoise owner. I have a 23 years old spur thigh. I have had him 3 years. He never had the correct set up until he lived with me and he hibernates himself every year. They used to put him in a cupboard. So the past 2 years I have used the box method and placed him in my shed. I find this method so stressful, especially as last year he woke up early and tried digging his way out. I cant do the fridge method. I was thinking about not hibernating him but he does this automatically so I have done the wind down period and he is now asleep. My question is can I just leave him asleep on his table with no light and heat OR does he have to be kept at the a certain temperature? So any advise given would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello! As I have non-hibernating specie, I cannot advice on right brumation technics. Please, check this thread: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/toms-brumation-thread.201823/
From what I read there, they need consistent low temperature to brumate properly and to avoid this "sudden wake-ups". Hence why "the fridge" method, however many owners do brumation outside, using tricks like frozen water bottles and such when weather gets crazy warm.

I think you can find most of the information there. And if any questions left, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Tom]

Hello. I am a fairly new tortoise owner. I have a 23 years old spur thigh. I have had him 3 years. He never had the correct set up until he lived with me and he hibernates himself every year. They used to put him in a cupboard. So the past 2 years I have used the box method and placed him in my shed. I find this method so stressful, especially as last year he woke up early and tried digging his way out. I cant do the fridge method. I was thinking about not hibernating him but he does this automatically so I have done the wind down period and he is now asleep. My question is can I just leave him asleep on his table with no light and heat OR does he have to be kept at the a certain temperature? So any advise given would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

You definitely cannot leave him at room temp. They have to be around 7-8C consistently.

Why can't you do the fridge method?

What are the temps in the shed?

 

[The Dark Hippy]

Hello! As I have non-hibernating specie, I cannot advice on right brumation technics. Please, check this thread: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/toms-brumation-thread.201823/
From what I read there, they need consistent low temperature to brumate properly and to avoid this "sudden wake-ups". Hence why "the fridge" method, however many owners do brumation outside, using tricks like frozen water bottles and such when weather gets crazy warm.

I think you can find most of the information there. And if any questions left, don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you

You definitely cannot leave him at room temp. They have to be around 7-8C consistently.nk you

Why can't you do the fridge method?

What are the temps in the shed?

Thank you.

Why can I not leave him at room temperature? Especially as he has chosen to go to sleep.

I can not do the fridge method this year as space is a bit of an issue and most importantly finance is an issue. I have just had a bad accident so out of work at the moment. If this is the best option then I can do this next year. I don't know the temperature of the top of my head in the shed but I know its cold enough, maybe not so constant though. I have a thermometer and check on him regularly. SO can do this is this is the best thing for him this year. But for me to be the best tortoise owner I need all the facts that I can get and I find with tortoises there is so much conflicting advise out there its hard to know what to do. I am not the type of person that can do something 'just because' I need to know the science and facts. Then I am happy to do what is right.

 

[Sarah2020]

Room temp is too hot for brumation the body is still running like a hot sunny day and not shutting down. Shed is risky due to frost. I aporeciate the finances and can only suggest you ensure your tortoise is safe and secure and protected from freezing weather box in a box and news paper etc..... You may have to consider a short 2 weeks beumation then wake it in a controlled way and return to normal life heat lamp and uvb. Alternative is you skip brumation all together this year which would be required if it was sick and keep it fed, watered, warm and regular soaks .

 

[Tom]

Why can I not leave him at room temperature? Especially as he has chosen to go to sleep.

Its too warm. Its explained here:

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[The Dark Hippy]

T

Room temp is too hot for brumation the body is still running like a hot sunny day and not shutting down. Shed is risky due to frost. I aporeciate the finances and can only suggest you ensure your tortoise is safe and secure and protected from freezing weather box in a box and news paper etc..... You may have to consider a short 2 weeks beumation then wake it in a controlled way and return to normal life heat lamp and uvb. Alternative is you skip brumation all together this year which would be required if it was sick and keep it fed, watered, warm and regular soaks .

hank you for your reply. I was thinking of keeping him awake this year but he another ideas. Can you explain the science behind him staying at room temperature please?

 

[The Dark Hippy]

Its too warm. Its explained here:

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you for your reply. I have read this article and it does not explain why its not a good idea. It just says not to do it. I need to know the science behind this. Please don't get me wrong as I am not disagreeing with you. I Just have a brain that needs to know all the facts.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Look for posts by markw84 on brumation topics on this forum. He explains much of the details of brumation process.
Just a quick brief:
Brumation is a process, when tortoise is semi-awake (it's not the same as hibernation in mammals). And the higher the temperatures, the more metabolical activity happens, which drains energy supplies from blood and de-hydrate tortoise quickly.

 

[Tom]

Thank you for your reply. I have read this article and it does not explain why its not a good idea. It just says not to do it. I need to know the science behind this. Please don't get me wrong as I am not disagreeing with you. I Just have a brain that needs to know all the facts.

What science do you need to know? The metabolic rate of an ectotherm is controlled by the environmental temperatures around it. They can't function, eat, digest food, etc... if it is not warm enough for them to get up to speed. Conversely, they burn through their energy reserves too quickly when they are not eating and functioning during brumation if temperatures are too warm. That is the "limbo" that I speak of in the thread. Too cold to function and be up and active, but too warm to brumate and wait out the cold winter weather without functioning.

If you want a treatise on the physics and body chemistry involved in reptile brumation, I will not be your source for that, but if you get yourself on to some sites that offer peer reviewed scientific journals, you can read as much about it as you like. After hours, weeks and months of your time spent reading over these materials, you will learn that room temp is too cold for a tortoise to be awake and functioning through winter, and too warm for them to safely brumate. Limbo. Happy hunting.

Or you can do your own study. Get 18 tortoises. Keep 6 at the correct enclosure temperatures for them to be awake and digest their food. Keep 6 at room temp with no heat source, and keep 6 at the correct brumation temperatures. Most of the members here can accurately predict what will happen, even if they can't explain the science behind it for you.

 

[Sarah2020]

T

hank you for your reply. I was thinking of keeping him awake this year but he another ideas. Can you explain the science behind him staying at room temperature please?

Hi if your planning to keep awake then ensure correct temps, light, food and water is provided as normal. Yes it is going to sleep long days but it will also graze and bask.
If you put it in the shed you risk freezing your tortoise to death when we go to minus C.

 

[zolasmum]

We have a 23year old Hermanns tortoise, and have never hibernated/brumated him. He has a heated conservatory. and we just go on treating him as usual - he seems to be happy with the situation - he isn't quite as energetic as in the summer, but we feel much safer with him awake - also, selfishly, we would miss him so much if he was asleep - he is the most important member of the family !
(We live in Devon,by the way, and it rarely gets really cold)
Angie

 

[The Dark Hippy]

Look for posts by markw84 on brumation topics on this forum. He explains much of the details of brumation process.
Just a quick brief:
Brumation is a process, when tortoise is semi-awake (it's not the same as hibernation in mammals). And the higher the temperatures, the more metabolical activity happens, which drains energy supplies from blood and de-hydrate tortoise quickly.

Thank you. I obviously need to do more research on brumantion. But this was what I was thinking that it was more of a metabolic issue.

 

[The Dark Hippy]

What science do you need to know? The metabolic rate of an ectotherm is controlled by the environmental temperatures around it. They can't function, eat, digest food, etc... if it is not warm enough for them to get up to speed. Conversely, they burn through their energy reserves too quickly when they are not eating and functioning during brumation if temperatures are too warm. That is the "limbo" that I speak of in the thread. Too cold to function and be up and active, but too warm to brumate and wait out the cold winter weather without functioning.

If you want a treatise on the physics and body chemistry involved in reptile brumation, I will not be your source for that, but if you get yourself on to some sites that offer peer reviewed scientific journals, you can read as much about it as you like. After hours, weeks and months of your time spent reading over these materials, you will learn that room temp is too cold for a tortoise to be awake and functioning through winter, and too warm for them to safely brumate. Limbo. Happy hunting.

Or you can do your own study. Get 18 tortoises. Keep 6 at the correct enclosure temperatures for them to be awake and digest their food. Keep 6 at room temp with no heat source, and keep 6 at the correct brumation temperatures. Most of the members here can accurately predict what will happen, even if they can't explain the science behind it for you.

hahaha thank you for this. As much as I would love to do my own research and would love to have loads of tortoises. I do not have the space for all them tortoises and also I don't need to, enough people have already done this. Also I dont really want to scroll though scientific journals (i dont mind reading the odd one or two ) and I do listen to what other people are saying. It just has to make sense to me. I just want to do what best and more natural for my little man. The previous owners just just to put him in a cupboard and never had him under any heat or light and hes 24. I was thinking this was more to do with his metabolism and how this effects them if they are not kept at the correct temperatures. As he never was and has a degree of pyramiding going on already so as far as I see it its even more important for me to get it right. He has just proven that he needs to be at a colder temperature as he has been asleep all week and then last night i has the heating on and he woke up today. This cant be good for him either. So as soon as he goes back to sleep, I will be putting him in the shed, with the intent of switching to the fridge method when its possible. So thank you for your advise. I know what area I need to do more research in.