How hard is it to get the federal CBW permit? I saw that it was nearly impossible a couple of years ago. Is that still the case?
It used to be relatively easy. Then, a few years ago, I was told they stopped giving them out to "regular" people. Bill Z corrected me and said they some people were still getting them, and the then the last thing I saw was that people were unable to get them again. Not sure what the status is now. The people Yvonne tagged will have the best and most current answer for you.
I fear that the situation is worse now than is was even with the prior Branch Chief. The current interpretation is that the CBW is meant for institutional users, and in rare cases, private individuals with institutional connections/collaborations.
I will assume you want to get a CBW for radiated tortoises.
I have read a couple recent denial letters, and the reasons for denial have become more advanced. They are now asking that someone has multiple, diverse bloodlines in their collection, involvement with the Species Survival Plan and Studbook, significant prior experience, and institutional affiliation. This certainly precludes those new to radiated tortoises from getting a permit, and really excludes all but the most experienced individuals with some significant background in turtle and tortoise captive breeding.
I have not done a FOIL request this year, but in 2016 and 2017 only a couple individual renewals were granted, and I only know of 1 new application that was approved (in 2016).
In 2018, I have not heard of a single new application being approved outside of institutional applicants, but I may have missed one. I have heard of multiple denials.
If you have the ability to get Radiated tortoises from within your state, or seek help from someone in your state with a permit, that would be your best (and maybe only) option.
What state is Angleton in?
I fear that the situation is worse now than is was even with the prior Branch Chief. The current interpretation is that the CBW is meant for institutional users, and in rare cases, private individuals with institutional connections/collaborations.
I will assume you want to get a CBW for radiated tortoises.
I have read a couple recent denial letters, and the reasons for denial have become more advanced. They are now asking that someone has multiple, diverse bloodlines in their collection, involvement with the Species Survival Plan and Studbook, significant prior experience, and institutional affiliation. This certainly precludes those new to radiated tortoises from getting a permit, and really excludes all but the most experienced individuals with some significant background in turtle and tortoise captive breeding.
I have not done a FOIL request this year, but in 2016 and 2017 only a couple individual renewals were granted, and I only know of 1 new application that was approved (in 2016).
In 2018, I have not heard of a single new application being approved outside of institutional applicants, but I may have missed one. I have heard of multiple denials.
If you have the ability to get Radiated tortoises from within your state, or seek help from someone in your state with a permit, that would be your best (and maybe only) option.
If you live in Texas, you have many options to buy Radiated tortoises in-state - if it were me, I would just do that. Jay Russo and Tom Motlow are both breeders in TX.Thanks for the detailed information be it a bit disheartening.
I currently have 4 rads all of diff bloodlines, but still the same bloodlines we have in TX.
One is SB registered and i have sent off info to get SB # assigned to to the others.
Most people will not have affiliation with zoos or tortoises propigation foundation, although some of us would like to get involved and have that connection that would make an impact/difference in the species.
I guess its a question of do I still want to try, knowing basically it's a 200 dollar donation when its all said and done.
Worst case I buy more over time , raise them and begin breading see how things change over the yrs
If you live in Texas, you have many options to buy Radiated tortoises in-state - if it were me, I would just do that. Jay Russo and Tom Motlow are both breeders in TX.
I will look in the studbook and see what I find. Also remember, you can trade a radiata from TX for one from another state as long as it is a rad for rad trade and its 1 for 1. Meaning you can trade 1 baby for 1 baby, but you can't trade, for instance, 5 babies for an adult. Stupid, but thats the way the law reads, and you don't need a CBW to do that.Yes sir those are the two I know and have bought from.
You know of any others in TX?
I will look in the studbook and see what I find. Also remember, you can trade a radiata from TX for one from another state as long as it is a rad for rad trade and its 1 for 1. Meaning you can trade 1 baby for 1 baby, but you can't trade, for instance, 5 babies for an adult. Stupid, but thats the way the law reads, and you don't need a CBW to do that.
Yes, breeding loans are fine (no CBW needed). Gifts are also fine.Yes I have read a bit of the legal txt.
Also for breading purposes, loan for stud purposes correct?
What about Gifting, no transfer er of leagal tender ? Just give one to other breeders/collector?
Thanks again.
In a lament about this situation, Russ Gurley ( the guy behind or maybe in front of TTPG) suggested that maybe people could just give a few away from time to time. Sounds crazy, like who would give away a radiated tortoise, right?
Kapidolo Farms has several, none have laid eggs yet, so pretty much an idea for the future...
I'll will offer free radiated tortoises if/when. You'd have to apply with your rejected CBW permit app, and after several have been collected, I figured myself and few others could review those apps and just give that person a young radiated tortoise. States with low populations would also be skewed to find a person to get one.
I still have to sort out how someone may twist the rest of the idea as wrong, but I'd want the recipient to donate some $$ to the conservation organization that is chelonian oriented. Money would move, in relation to the transfer of a tortoise, but it's not a quid pro quo so not a sale or exchange.
Any $hit-house lawyers or real attorneys care to comment?
I like this idea a lot Will. We could setup a small group of radiata breeders across the country, each one committing to donate 1 tortoise a year. People would apply with a denied CBW AND proof of the appropriate state permit if required. They could then make a donation to the organization of our choice, arrange for shipping and packaging, and we would send a tortoise of our choosing. This would also allow breeders to donate a tortoise that might not be of the highest value - like minimal color or split scutes, etc...In a lament about this situation, Russ Gurley ( the guy behind or maybe in front of TTPG) suggested that maybe people could just give a few away from time to time. Sounds crazy, like who would give away a radiated tortoise, right?
Kapidolo Farms has several, none have laid eggs yet, so pretty much an idea for the future...
I'll will offer free radiated tortoises if/when. You'd have to apply with your rejected CBW permit app, and after several have been collected, I figured myself and few others could review those apps and just give that person a young radiated tortoise. States with low populations would also be skewed to find a person to get one.
I still have to sort out how someone may twist the rest of the idea as wrong, but I'd want the recipient to donate some $$ to the conservation organization that is chelonian oriented. Money would move, in relation to the transfer of a tortoise, but it's not a quid pro quo so not a sale or exchange.
Any $hit-house lawyers or real attorneys care to comment?
I like this idea a lot Will. We could setup a small group of radiata breeders across the country, each one committing to donate 1 tortoise a year. People would apply with a denied CBW AND proof of the appropriate state permit if required. They could then make a donation to the organization of our choice, arrange for shipping and packaging, and we would send a tortoise of our choosing. This would also allow breeders to donate a tortoise that might not be of the highest value - like minimal color or split scutes, etc...
Interesting....
So you are asking people to file for CBW every year or a past denial would work?
In a lament about this situation, Russ Gurley ( the guy behind or maybe in front of TTPG) suggested that maybe people could just give a few away from time to time. Sounds crazy, like who would give away a radiated tortoise, right?
Kapidolo Farms has several, none have laid eggs yet, so pretty much an idea for the future...
I'll will offer free radiated tortoises if/when. You'd have to apply with your rejected CBW permit app, and after several have been collected, I figured myself and few others could review those apps and just give that person a young radiated tortoise. States with low populations would also be skewed to find a person to get one.
I still have to sort out how someone may twist the rest of the idea as wrong, but I'd want the recipient to donate some $$ to the conservation organization that is chelonian oriented. Money would move, in relation to the transfer of a tortoise, but it's not a quid pro quo so not a sale or exchange.
Any $hit-house lawyers or real attorneys care to comment?