ID of 50yr old - TH or Spur thighed??

[poshhippy]

Hi there

I am based in the UK.

Today I rehomed a tortoise whose 92 year owner passed away recently. I have several questions...sorry!

1. ID - I know she is female because I have been told she started laying eggs about 10 years ago. I think she is a minimum of 48 years old. I have been doing lots of research and I think that she is a hermanni boettgeri but I must be absolutely sure as i have a 6 year old female THB and I know that different species should not be mixed. She is very similar in markings and appearance to my one however the markings on her underside are very faint but I wonder if this is due to wear. I did wonder if she could be a Greek tortoise because she has big scales where spurs might be but they don't seem to be as obvious as I imagine they should?

2. If she is the same as my little one how long do i wait before intro'ing them. I think it is 6 months quarantine but what does this mean exactly. I keep them separately and wait to see if any health problems arise in the new one? Or as they have both been kept alone will they be ok to put together straight away?

3. Her diet has not been great, lettuce, tomato, biscuits (!) but her shell is quite smooth, there are a couple of areas of flakiness on it and some white sort of crusty bits in between the scutes though. She has been kept outside and never been under a heat lamp and she self hibernates. I know I have to rectify the diet etc but should I do it immediately, I am worried the stress of moving her and putting her on a new diet at the same time will be too much.

Any advice gratefully received.

Thank you.

Sarah

 

[GBtortoises]

It looks like you have Hermann's tortoise. She appears to be an Eastern, Testudo hermanni boettgeri. In your fourth photo of her lower rear portion I cannot make out any inguinal scutes present. They should be small, triangular shaped (like an arrowhead) scutes at the bridge where the carapace and plastron meet in front of her rear leg. The abscense of these scutes (along with some other features) would make her a Dalmatian, T. h. hercegovinensis. Either way, she's awesome looking!

 

[poshhippy]

It looks like you have Hermann's tortoise. She appears to be an Eastern, Testudo hermanni boettgeri. In your fourth photo of her lower rear portion I cannot make out any inguinal scutes present. They should be small, triangular shaped (like an arrowhead) scutes at the bridge where the carapace and plastron meet in front of her rear leg. The abscense of these scutes (along with some other features) would make her a Dalmatian, T. h. hercegovinensis. Either way, she's awesome looking!

I will check the inguinal scutes! Thank you, I think she is lovely.

 

[Eweezyfosheezy]

Wow! Definitely a female hermanns. I really like the look of old testudo species because they get really big heads and legs.

 

[BowandWalter]

Her shell looks like stained glass! She's beautiful!

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Lovely!!!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Sharp looking old gal!

 

[Raymo2477]

I am new to this...but the last photo looks like a spur to the right of tail making it look like a Greek variety to me.

 

[GBtortoises]

I am new to this...but the last photo looks like a spur to the right of tail making it look like a Greek variety to me.

This tortoise has a hard tip tail spur, no lower plastral hinge as well as the same carapace and plastral scute configuration and the head and leg structure that is characteristic of all Hermann's subspecies. While it appears that it may have a couple of raised "spurs" on the rear legs, this is not uncommon for Hermann's, especially Eastern Hermann's. But by comparison they are rarely as prominent as those on most Greek subspecies. The supercaudal scute is also split which is much more common in Hermann's subspecies than in any of the Greek subspecies. Although some Hermann's do not exhibit the split scute and some Greeks do (although few).

Greek subspecies do not have a hard tip tail, as well as having a completely different structured tail in terms of appearance. The rear lateral plastral scute seam is always hinged in Greek subspecies and especially prominent in mature females. The supercaudal scute is very rarely split in Greek tortoises, although a very small number of them do exhibit it. The "spurs" (actually just conical shaped scales) on the rear legs, of Greek tortoises vary greatly in size, shape and number not only among different subpecies but even within the same subspecies and population. A very small percentage of Greeks do not have any "spurs" at all. So it alone is not an acurate species indentification feature. Nor is any other single feature on it's own.

 

[chris_m90731]

Hermie

 

[poshhippy]

Thanks all for your comments, they have been so helpful, I have become obsessed with reading this forum!

I have to admit she might have looked extra pretty as it was raining when I took the photos!! So.... I checked to see if she has the extra scutes in between the carapace and plastron and she does so happily she is the same sub species as my 6 year old, Horatio (who I have also now identified as a girl after all this research I've been doing!).

Now next thing is to take her to the vet to be wormed and get these white patches and bit of flakiness checked!

If all is fine with the 50 year is it ok to put them in together as they are both females and both the same species and sub species...?

Sarah

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I have to admit she might have looked extra pretty as it was raining when I took the photos!!

Really cool Hermann tortoise. As for the photos, no worries: all the best pictures are of wet tortoises. Most people intentionally pour some water over them to make them look shiny before the camera.

 

[Eweezyfosheezy]

Are you going to get her dewormed without a fecal check done?

How bout pics of the other female?

Its ok for them to be together but I would watch carefully and make sure they dont start fighting.

 

[poshhippy]

I have to admit she might have looked extra pretty as it was raining when I took the photos!!

Really cool Hermann tortoise. As for the photos, no worries: all the best pictures are of wet tortoises. Most people intentionally pour some water over them to make them look shiny before the camera.

I'll have to remember that in the future!

 

[poshhippy]

Are you going to get her dewormed without a fecal check done?

How bout pics of the other female?

Its ok for them to be together but I would watch carefully and make sure they dont start fighting.

Ok so I didn't know what a fecal check was - have checked forum and now I do! I will take a poo to the vet and ask them to do the fecal check to see if she needs the wormer... she has to go to the vet anyway for the shell issues.

I will take some pics of Horatio the 6yr old shortly and post them and also some pics of the outdoor enclosure i have started to work on for them both when I know it is safe to intro them.

If they start fighting there is only going to be one winner, Timmy the 50yr old is about 4 times the size. Really hope this doesn't happen.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Are you going to get her dewormed without a fecal check done?

How bout pics of the other female?

Its ok for them to be together but I would watch carefully and make sure they dont start fighting.

Ok so I didn't know what a fecal check was - have checked forum and now I do! I will take a poo to the vet and ask them to do the fecal check to see if she needs the wormer... she has to go to the vet anyway for the shell issues.

I will take some pics of Horatio the 6yr old shortly and post them and also some pics of the outdoor enclosure i have started to work on for them both when I know it is safe to intro them.

If they start fighting there is only going to be one winner, Timmy the 50yr old is about 4 times the size. Really hope this doesn't happen.

Female Hermann's tort get along fine unless the enclosure is too small or you're under-feeding them...make the outside enclosure at least 8' by 5', and put in plenty of "toys" (things to climb over, under or around) and all will be fine. And keep the greens coming!

And, while they're living inside (winter months), plant their outside home up with a lot of weed and grass seeds, which will start growing before they move back outside...around here, by the time they can move to their outside home, it's a lush little jungle for their grazing pleasure!