Introducing Adrienne

[Balboa]

Well here's the little one I've mentioned elsewhere. I think we've had her for almost a week now.



I actually paid for this one, a nominal $25 adoption fee. He/She was too sick to sell and in the "wellness room" at the local pet store. IMHO (and from what I've seen) care level given in the wellness room just prolongs death, and I thought this one had a fighting chance so I adopted her/him. Not a wise move for most folks, and not something I suggest to most folks.

We've named her/him Adrienne/Adrian in hopes they'll join Rocky someday. I'll stick to she from here out, its easier lol

She's about 4 inches, and actually came into the store from the supplier pyramided with shell rot. Quality vendor there. Corporate BS kept her there instead of going back, a trip that I guess might have killed her anyways.

Unfortunatly, this meant putting the 40 Breeder that Rocky came to me in (and I was SOOOOO glad to get her out of) back into service. I've had a few more ideas this go around and am actually getting satisfactory temps and humidity out of it so not so bad for now.

She mostly sleeps in her hide, but I'm starting to notice her activity level going up. Thankfully she was still eating when I got her, albeit only nibbles, but her appetite has been steadily improving. Today she shocked me with how much she ate (quite the plateful for such a little thing), so that I take as a good sign for sure.

 

[Torty Mom]

What a cutie!! I wish her a speedy recovery!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Pretty bright-eyed face. Remember to quarantine her for about 6 months or more from Rocky as you don't want to transfer any disease or bacteria from her to him...

 

[Isa]

Adorable Congrats!

 

[Kristina]

Nice one I would have paid $25 for her in a heart beat myself.

Amazing what good temps, hydration, and food can do, and how quickly, isn't it?

 

[Tom]

She's doesn't look bad at all. I hope it works out for her and you.

 

[DeanS]

I was just gonna say what Tom said...I can't believe she looks as good as she does (considering what she's endured) Good luck!

 

[Madkins007]

Cute! She looks like she may be a little flat in the shell, but that could also just be the angle of the photo. Is the shell hard?

Good luck, and applause for a rescue!

 

[terryo]

Great looking little Red, and good for you for the rescue!

 

[Balboa]

Thanks all!

You know Mark, I was thinking her shell looked a bit flat myself, especially compared to Rocky's who looks like a 4 legged mountain. I wasn't sure if it was just an age thing or not.

The employee that unpacked her didn't put her on the floor because her "shell felt soft" , which was later assumed to mean the rot, which is all the vet that checked her out for the store found wrong. (not one of my favorite local vets though).

I don't notice her shell as feeling soft, but must admit I never HAVE felt many shells to compare it too. Considering her overall condition I wouldn't be surprised if it is a bit soft, but the store provided her with a cuttlebone and good greens right away, don't know how quickly something like that turns around, probably not that quick I guess, lol

 

[goReptiles]

The pyramiding is very minimal. She actually looks really good. She's lucky to have a good home now.

 

[Madkins007]

I'd like to clarify a couple things about 'rot'.

There are several things that can happen to a shell.

Shell rot is a generic term for a variety of degenerative things that can involve bacteria, fungi, excess wetness for some species, and so on. With shell rot, the outer layers of the shell are eaten away in some way.

Pyramiding is when the scutes on the shell begin to rise up in humps. 'Simple pyramiding' (not an official term) is purely a cosmetic issue. It seems to be caused by the growth regions of the scutes drying out. Other forms of pyramids can happen as part of MBD...

Metabolic Bone Disorder (MBD) is a generic term for things that can go wrong with the bones and shell. Soft shells, deformed jaws, poorly-formed limbs, etc. are all the results of one type of MBD or another. The most common MBD has a fancy term I cannot recall right now (something like Secondary Nutritional Hyperparathyroidism) but means that the tortoise is not getting useful calcium in the cells, is getting too much phosphorous, not getting enough vitamin D, or something similar.

That flattened and soft shell (at least in the past) is probably a sign of the dietary version of MBD, while the bumps are one form of pyramiding or another- probably mostly 'simple' and partly MBD.

Correcting the diet helps eliminate the problems and complications of MBD, but does not automatically cause the bones or shell to regain a more normal shape.

We've run articles on 'strong bones and shells' before, but a quick recap would be...
- Good levels of calcium in the food.
- Almost as much, but not quite, as much phosphorous. (These together form the Ca: P or Calcium Phosphorous Ratio, which should be about 1.5:1 overall)
- Vitamin D, best obtained from unfiltered sunlight or a good UVB lamp.
- Good temps, good water/hydration/humidity.
- Good other minerals and vitamins-magnesium, iron, etc.
- Good exercise and rest.

There is a lot you can learn about calcium- it is not as easy as it sounds. For example, big chunks of calcium, as in bites of cuttlebone, may not get absorbed as easily. Calcium inhibits iron intake. Oxalates bind the calcium in that food and reduce bioavailabilty. And more.

Right now, don't sweat it too much. Follow a good plan and watch Adrienne. I bet she turns out fine. The Tortoise Library in my signature has some articles that may help.

 

[Balboa]

LOL I think I've read em all already, but reviewed your website again just in case Mark. Thanks once again for all the good information.

Tried to give Adrienne a good look over today without handling her too much. She really doesn't seem to have as much "dome" to her shell as Rocky, Rocky's pyramids are larger, and she's a larger Tort, so there could still be some perception issues on my part. I still wouldn't say she feels "soft". She's not squishie, not that I pressed very hard, I guess maybe you could say she has a slightly more leathery tactile feel to her than Rocky. I really can't tell any difference of Scute sound when tapped. To be honest they both sounded "hollowish" to me, so no good comparison there.

For all I know Rocky may have had some MBD going. Even though she may not have been getting much from the cuttlebone she attacked that thing savagely at first like she craved calcium. I almost took it away for a bit out of fear she'd over wear her beak. She seems to be more satisfied these days as she just takes a nibble every now and again.

Adrienne hasn't paid much attention to hers yet.

I just keep checking their enclosures incessantly, making sure everythings as it should be, they're eating good food, try not to bother them, and hope for the best. Rocky's turnaround "felt" faster than this, but don't think she was as bad off to start with.

Here's another pic from another angle