Introducing my Egyptian tortoises

[Cowgirl]

Martha Lisa Garcia (Dovelett15) was generous enough to let me purchase these healthy and curious cuties from her. Luckily we are both in California as they can not be sold over state lines. I have three that are four months old and two that are eight months old. I had read that the Egyptians can be shy but these little diamonds are active from the time they wake up, and have their morning soak until early afternoon. I am fortunate to have a Smart Enclosure, closed chamber, from Markw84, Mark Wilson, so my heat, lights and humidity are pretty easy to get right. I love how active and curious they are.
Claudia in California

 

[wellington]

Beautiful.
Is it a new thing that they can't cross state lines? I never heard this in past years. This is the second time I have read it this month.
We never had a lot of them on here, that I ever noticed, might be why I never read it before.

 

[dovelett15]

Claudia, I adore your setup! I am assured they are in very good hands.

 

[dd33]

Beautiful.
Is it a new thing that they can't cross state lines? I never heard this in past years. This is the second time I have read it this month.
We never had a lot of them on here, that I ever noticed, might be why I never read it before.

They were added to the US Endangered Species list on May 1, 2023.

 

[wellington]

They were added to the US Endangered Species list on May 1, 2023.

I did know that, not the exact date. So when they put them on the list, that makes them restricted from crossing state lines?
That seems backwards to me, specially when they aren't a native species.

 

[dd33]

I did know that, not the exact date. So when they put them on the list, that makes them restricted from crossing state lines?
That seems backwards to me, specially when they aren't a native species.

Yes, once on the endangered species list with the classification of endangered, interstate commerce is prohibited. Same rules apply to them as Galapagos and Radiateds that people have been talking about here for years. You can take your own, or gift them across state lines but you can't buy/sell without a CBW permit.
There are a LOT of species listed that are not native to the US and the number is expanding quickly. The ESA is being used as a tool to attack the pet hobby by activist groups by removing even captive bred animals from trade. For some (fish) species we can show that an ESA listing is actually harmful to wild populations because removing the US demand for imported captive bred animals makes farming operations unprofitable. This leaves every other country in the world that does not adhere to our ESA stuck with wild collected animals.

 

[wellington]

Yes, once on the endangered species list with the classification of endangered, interstate commerce is prohibited. Same rules apply to them as Galapagos and Radiateds that people have been talking about here for years. You can take your own, or gift them across state lines but you can't buy/sell without a CBW permit.
There are a LOT of species listed that are not native to the US and the number is expanding quickly. The ESA is being used as a tool to attack the pet hobby by activist groups by removing even captive bred animals from trade. For some (fish) species we can show that an ESA listing is actually harmful to wild populations because removing the US demand for imported captive bred animals makes farming operations unprofitable. This leaves every other country in the world that does not adhere to our ESA stuck with wild collected animals.

I have seen the Rads and Gallops always on that list. I didn't know how they got on them. I can understand them not wanting them to cross country lines, but state lines no. I thought there was more to it.
Thanks

 

[Alliegator28]

I absolutely love them! They are the cutest

 

[zovick]

Beautiful.
Is it a new thing that they can't cross state lines? I never heard this in past years. This is the second time I have read it this month.
We never had a lot of them on here, that I ever noticed, might be why I never read it before.

The species was added to the US Endangered Species Act (ESA) list a year or two ago. This means that in order to sell them across state lines, both buyer and seller must possess USFWS Captive Bred Wildlife permits (CBW for short). USFWS is VERY hesitant to give those permits out these days. Fewer and fewer private people are able to obtain them, and it was taking close to two years to even get a refusal the last I knew.

After continuously having a CBW permit from the 1970's when they were first issued, I let mine expire in 2019 because no one who wanted to buy my Radiated Tortoises was able to get a permit to make the purchase. Hence, the market for selling the babies out of state dried up.

Surprisingly, in 20 years of my living in GA, I only had about 5 in-state residents who even expressed interest in buying them, and I advertised them for sale several times yearly on well known sites. The states where in-state sales are good are AZ, CA, FL, and TX.

 

[zovick]

Martha Lisa Garcia (Dovelett15) was generous enough to let me purchase these healthy and curious cuties from her. Luckily we are both in California as they can not be sold over state lines. I have three that are four months old and two that are eight months old. I had read that the Egyptians can be shy but these little diamonds are active from the time they wake up, and have their morning soak until early afternoon. I am fortunate to have a Smart Enclosure, closed chamber, from Markw84, Mark Wilson, so my heat, lights and humidity are pretty easy to get right. I love how active and curious they are.
Claudia in California View attachment 365740View attachment 365741View attachment 365742

Your set up looks great and so do the tortoises. I have one observation/question: what is that substrate you are using? It looks like some type of sand which I would caution you may be a health risk. I have had one extremely rare tortoise (Astrochelys yniphora) die from a sand impaction, and it is not pleasant. You might want to consider changing your substrate to crushed oyster shells.

Both of the premier breeders of Egyptian Tortoises I know keep theirs on the crushed oyster shells. I did the same when I kept the species personally, and so did the Bronx Zoo when I was on the staff there.

The danger is that when/if food items get pushed off a feeding tray or stone, the sand sticks to the foods and is accidentally ingested. That is what happened to my tortoise when he was on loan to a well-known institution. I personally never kept any of my tortoises on sand, but still lost that irreplaceable animal to the problem of sand impaction.

 

[TammyJ]

Your set up looks great and so do the tortoises. I have one observation/question: what is that substrate you are using? It looks like some type of sand which I would caution you may be a health risk. I have had one extremely rare tortoise (Astrochelys yniphora) die from a sand impaction, and it is not pleasant. You might want to consider changing your substrate to crushed oyster shells.

Both of the premier breeders of Egyptian Tortoises I know keep theirs on the crushed oyster shells. I did the same when I kept the species personally, and so did the Bronx Zoo when I was on the staff there.

The danger is that when/if food items get pushed off a feeding tray or stone, the sand sticks to the foods and is accidentally ingested. That is what happened to my tortoise when he was on loan to a well-known institution. I personally never kept any of my tortoises on sand, but still lost that irreplaceable animal to the problem of sand impaction.

I am very sorry to learn that you owned a Ploughshare tortoise and lost it like that! That's awful 😞. I know that sand is a terrible choice of substrate for any tortoise.

 

[TammyJ]

By the way, why are crushed oyster shells ok whereas sand is not?

 

[zovick]

By the way, why are crushed oyster shells ok whereas sand is not?

As I have always been told, crushed oyster shells are digestible. Additionally, they are a much larger particle size than grains of sand, so they are not likely to be swallowed inadvertently while the tortoise is eating. Tortoises would more likely spit the oyster shell pieces out than swallow them, but if they do get swallowed, they will be digested.

By the way, Rep-Cal is made from pulverized oyster shells.

 

[Cowgirl]

Your set up looks great and so do the tortoises. I have one observation/question: what is that substrate you are using? It looks like some type of sand which I would caution you may be a health risk. I have had one extremely rare tortoise (Astrochelys yniphora) die from a sand impaction, and it is not pleasant. You might want to consider changing your substrate to crushed oyster shells.

Both of the premier breeders of Egyptian Tortoises I know keep theirs on the crushed oyster shells. I did the same when I kept the species personally, and so did the Bronx Zoo when I was on the staff there.

The danger is that when/if food items get pushed off a feeding tray or stone, the sand sticks to the foods and is accidentally ingested. That is what happened to my tortoise when he was on loan to a well-known institution. I personally never kept any of my tortoises on sand, but still lost that irreplaceable animal to the problem of sand impaction.

Thank you very much for sharing your experience. I have half the enclosure in Oyster shell and that is where I have their food and water. I really appreciate hearing what works and doesn’t work from experienced keepers like yourself.