Is Spud preparing for brumation?

[spuddy91]

Hi everyone, I've had my hermanns tortoise for a year now and hes just over 1 year old. The past 2 days be has slowed down alot. Not eating, hiding/sleeping more and just generally not as active. This is the total opposite of what he is usually like. After his morning bath he usually runs (literally) straight to the food bowl and is generally very active. Hes alert and there doesnt seem to be any signs of illness, just not eating and bit more sluggish. Also I haven't noticed any poo the last couple days but im guessing its because he hasn't eaten? Ive read some threads on here and upped the both timers to 14 hours (UV and basking spot) and increased basking spot to 38c. I had initially planned to install a CHE when we first got him, but we discovered our house was already really warm and nighttime temp rarely dropped below 20c. So didn't think it was necessary. Should I get one?

Ideally i dont want him to brumate. Stupidly ive completely overlooked the whole thing and now it looks like the time is here. Anything else I can do prevent this? He only started showing these signs yesterday morning, before then he was eating as normal and really active as usual. Heres some pics of the setup and temps.



Basking spot upped from 35c to 38c for 14 hours
Cool end is currently 25c
Nighttime 20c (occasionally drops slightly below)
UV on for 14 hours
Humidity is always 65% - 75%

Thanks for any help

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello! A lot of tortoises do start becoming less active this time of year, you’ve already taken some good steps, with the uv, that can still remain on its own separate 4hour timer, however stick with the basking on for the 14hours, and I’d also think about adding some ambient lighting in the middle if you can? Doesn’t have to be anything fancy, a screw in led or some strip lighting, you could probably use the greenhouse frame to mount it, put that on the same 14hr timer as the basking bulb.

Your temperatures already sound good so I don’t think a ceramic is needed personally, though they can definitely come in once the weather really starts getting freezing here, I guess just monitor how your levels are going.

The greenhouse cover will definitely be helping to retain the heat, but I will say there are other cover options that might potentially work better, if I’m being honest, vivariums are really the best choice for being good heat insulators during our cold uk winters.

For his age, ideally you do want humidity a bit higher, not staying its priority, but it’s definitely beneficial at his age during this growth stage, I’d maybe try adding a bit more substrate. Because the greenhouse cover doesn’t sit tightly where it meets the base, there’s potential humidity being lost there, I saw one member take some pool noodles, cut them to size, make a cut down the middle so they sit on the edges of the wooden base, essentially creating a tighter ‘seal’ around the bottom, I hope is makes sense! I wish I still had that post to handbut this idea might help in retaining the heat too.
If humidity does get higher, and your night temps start dropping lower, I’d probably consider the ceramic, cooler temps and higher humidity can be a problem.

Ultimately the best you can do is keep those lights on longer, make sure those temperatures are staying where they are currently, and try adding the ambient lighting. Warm ambient heat and a well lit enclosure is the best you can do to prevent a winter slow down, I don’t think it works for everyone, some tortoises remain sluggish regardless, in that case I think it best to consider brumation, if not this winter maybe the next

Have you checked out @Tom brumation thread? He could probably advise here too, perhaps there’s something I’ve not thought of

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[spuddy91]

Hello! A lot of tortoises do start becoming less active this time of year, you’ve already taken some good steps, with the uv, that can still remain on its own separate 4hour timer, however stick with the basking on for the 14hours, and I’d also think about adding some ambient lighting in the middle if you can? Doesn’t have to be anything fancy, a screw in led or some strip lighting, you could probably use the greenhouse frame to mount it, put that on the same 14hr timer as the basking bulb.

Your temperatures already sound good so I don’t think a ceramic is needed personally, though they can definitely come in once the weather really starts getting freezing here, I guess just monitor how your levels are going.

The greenhouse cover will definitely be helping to retain the heat, but I will say there are other cover options that might potentially work better, if I’m being honest, vivariums are really the best choice for being good heat insulators during our cold uk winters.

For his age, ideally you do want humidity a bit higher, not staying its priority, but it’s definitely beneficial at his age during this growth stage, I’d maybe try adding a bit more substrate. Because the greenhouse cover doesn’t sit tightly where it meets the base, there’s potential humidity being lost there, I saw one member take some pool noodles, cut them to size, make a cut down the middle so they sit on the edges of the wooden base, essentially creating a tighter ‘seal’ around the bottom, I hope is makes sense! I wish I still had that post to handbut this idea might help in retaining the heat too.
If humidity does get higher, and your night temps start dropping lower, I’d probably consider the ceramic, cooler temps and higher humidity can be a problem.

Ultimately the best you can do is keep those lights on longer, make sure those temperatures are staying where they are currently, and try adding the ambient lighting. Warm ambient heat and a well lit enclosure is the best you can do to prevent a winter slow down, I don’t think it works for everyone, some tortoises remain sluggish regardless, in that case I think it best to consider brumation, if not this winter maybe the next

Have you checked out @Tom brumation thread? He could probably advise here too, perhaps there’s something I’ve not thought of

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

Yes I read through that thread, its really helpful with lots of great info.
The pool noodle idea is great! ill definitely look into this and keep the humidity higher. I'd be able to make it work with his enclosure i think. And yeah I was looking to add some ambient lighting too. Would those led strip lights be ok? Like these https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00MHTNYWS?tag=exoticpetnetw-20 Or would it need to be more of a tube fixture light that gives off a little heat too?

If he does continue with his slumber after making these adjustments, would it be best to brumate him? Im just wondering if there's a rough time frame i should be looking at. Say if he continues to settle down and not eat, how long do i let this continue before brumating?

Thank you so much for the reply

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Yes I read through that thread, its really helpful with lots of great info.
The pool noodle idea is great! ill definitely look into this and keep the humidity higher. I'd be able to make it work with his enclosure i think. And yeah I was looking to add some ambient lighting too. Would those led strip lights be ok? Like these https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00MHTNYWS?tag=exoticpetnetw-20 Or would it need to be more of a tube fixture light that gives off a little heat too?

If he does continue with his slumber after making these adjustments, would it be best to brumate him? Im just wondering if there's a rough time frame i should be looking at. Say if he continues to settle down and not eat, how long do i let this continue before brumating?

Thank you so much for the reply

These look fine to mejust a tip, I’d probably zip tie them to the frame instead of using an adhesive or magnet, doesn’t tend to hold with the humidity.

A lot of people start the slow down process covered in the brumation thread around the beginning of November, some slightly earlier, some slightly later, you certainly aren’t too late to consider doing it this year, you could let these tweaks play out till October is through, if he still seems sluggish I’d probably commit to the brumation process. I don’t envy you cause I imagine it’s nerve racking when you’ve not done it before, but I think some just simply don’t want to stay active this time of year no matter what you do, and staying in that ‘inbetween’ state isn’t very good for them.

Maybe instead of the 4hours uv I mentioned, bump that up to 6hrs and see if that helps too, got to keep trying to ‘trick’ him into thinking it’s a longer, warmer summers day, fingers crossed and please keep us in the loop.

I’m hoping Tom will see your thread too at some point in case there’s something I’ve not thought of

 

[spuddy91]

These look fine to mejust a tip, I’d probably zip tie them to the frame instead of using an adhesive or magnet, doesn’t tend to hold with the humidity.

A lot of people start the slow down process covered in the brumation thread around the beginning of November, some slightly earlier, some slightly later, you certainly aren’t too late to consider doing it this year, you could let these tweaks play out till October is through, if he still seems sluggish I’d probably commit to the brumation process. I don’t envy you cause I imagine it’s nerve racking when you’ve not done it before, but I think some just simply don’t want to stay active this time of year no matter what you do, and staying in that ‘inbetween’ state isn’t very good for them.

Maybe instead of the 4hours uv I mentioned, bump that up to 6hrs and see if that helps too, got to keep trying to ‘trick’ him into thinking it’s a longer, warmer summers day, fingers crossed and please keep us in the loop.

I’m hoping Tom will see your thread too at some point in case there’s something I’ve not thought of

Perfect. We'll up the uv time too and see how he responds to the adjustments. Ive went with 2 full spectrum led grow lights instead, as these can just clip to the sides making things easier. Haha yeah its definitely a little scary . But im sure we will manage and he will be fine thanks to the abundance of info and knowledgeable members on this site. Will definitely keep yous updated. Thanks!

 

[spuddy91]

Little update on Spud. Ive added two bright LED lights (see pic) on for 14 hours. Basking spot has been upped and is on for 14 hours too. UV is on for 6 hours. Hes been eating a little more each day for the past 3 days now. Still not quite the greedy bugger he was beforehand but just glad that hes eating. Overall hes alot more active and "awake". Also he does have some pyramiding, i realised ive been keeping his enclosure too dry . Humidity is now kept alot higher moving forward. So happy hes decided to wake up, was worrying about the little guy

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Little update on Spud. Ive added two bright LED lights (see pic) on for 14 hours. Basking spot has been upped and is on for 14 hours too. UV is on for 6 hours. Hes been eating a little more each day for the past 3 days now. Still not quite the greedy bugger he was beforehand but just glad that hes eating. Overall hes alot more active and "awake". Also he does have some pyramiding, i realised ive been keeping his enclosure too dry . Humidity is now kept alot higher moving forward. So happy hes decided to wake up, was worrying about the little guy

Glad to hear it!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Little update on Spud. Ive added two bright LED lights (see pic) on for 14 hours. Basking spot has been upped and is on for 14 hours too. UV is on for 6 hours. Hes been eating a little more each day for the past 3 days now. Still not quite the greedy bugger he was beforehand but just glad that hes eating. Overall hes alot more active and "awake". Also he does have some pyramiding, i realised ive been keeping his enclosure too dry . Humidity is now kept alot higher moving forward. So happy hes decided to wake up, was worrying about the little guy

Aw this is wonderful! Thank you so much for the update