Is this shell normal? 1mo desert tortoise

[MotherofTortoise]

Hello! I have a 1 month old California Desert Tortoise hatchling and am a first time tortoise owner. There is a section of his shell I’m curious about… I’ve read they can have small wrinkles in their shell from being in the egg but couldn’t find any pictures that look like what I’m seeing. The center row of scutes have wrinkles with the first and last being the most affected. There’s also a small wrinkle that goes across the shell from back leg to back leg. We have had him for 1 week. The first two days he did a lot of hiding and didn’t eat much but now he has a voracious appetite and is very active. No signs of illness that I can tell. Thoughts?

 

[Tortoise Nana]

Hello! I have a 1 month old California Desert Tortoise hatchling and am a first time tortoise owner. There is a section of his shell I’m curious about… I’ve read they can have small wrinkles in their shell from being in the egg but couldn’t find any pictures that look like what I’m seeing. The center row of scutes have wrinkles with the first and last being the most affected. There’s also a small wrinkle that goes across the shell from back leg to back leg. We have had him for 1 week. The first two days he did a lot of hiding and didn’t eat much but now he has a voracious appetite and is very active. No signs of illness that I can tell. Thoughts?

I am not an expert by any means, but both of my desert tortoises have the same thing and they are 5 years old now.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome. You have a terrific species. I've been working with them for decades and they are wonderful.

Unfortunately, almost all of the care info found for this species is wrong. Most babies don't even survive because of it. Most succumb to dehydration related issues.

Please take some time to read through these two threads for the correct care info. Luckily, they are very hardy and it's very easy to get them to thrive if you just house, hydrate and feed them correctly. Questions are welcome.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

What did you use for substrate? It looks like soil with either perlite or sand in it. These are no good. This is all explained in the links above.

The shell looks normal. The gaps you are seeing might be from using the wrong lighting or keeping the baby too dry. What type of basking bulb are you using? Any UV bulbs or other lighting?

 

[MotherofTortoise]

Hello and welcome. You have a terrific species. I've been working with them for decades and they are wonderful.

Unfortunately, almost all of the care info found for this species is wrong. Most babies don't even survive because of it. Most succumb to dehydration related issues.

Please take some time to read through these two threads for the correct care info. Luckily, they are very hardy and it's very easy to get them to thrive if you just house, hydrate and feed them correctly. Questions are welcome.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

What did you use for substrate? It looks like soil with either perlite or sand in it. These are no good. This is all explained in the links above.

The shell looks normal. The gaps you are seeing might be from using the wrong lighting or keeping the baby too dry. What type of basking bulb are you using? Any UV bulbs or other lighting?

The substrate is ground coconut coir that is kept moist but not wet. There’s a temp gradient from 100 to 80 degrees - 100 is the basking spot. There is a T5 Pro Desert 12% light the length of the enclosure and the basking spot is a duel fixture with a uvb light and the heat light. There is a humid hide that stays 90 degrees with 80% humidity. Also a cooler hide that is 80 degrees with 60% humidity. The open space is the only thing I’ve been struggling with humidity - stays at an average of 55% We are currently making an enclosure top that will enclose 50ish % of the top to increase the humidity but keep air flow. As a result, I’ve been soaking him twice daily instead of once until the top is secured. The person I got him from had ideal temp and humidity parameters. He looks the same as when I got him… no changes.

I’ll read through those posts, thank you. Any additional feedback on the current set up?

 

[Tom]

The substrate is ground coconut coir that is kept moist but not wet. There’s a temp gradient from 100 to 80 degrees - 100 is the basking spot. There is a T5 Pro Desert 12% light the length of the enclosure and the basking spot is a duel fixture with a uvb light and the heat light. There is a humid hide that stays 90 degrees with 80% humidity. Also a cooler hide that is 80 degrees with 60% humidity. The open space is the only thing I’ve been struggling with humidity - stays at an average of 55% We are currently making an enclosure top that will enclose 50ish % of the top to increase the humidity but keep air flow. As a result, I’ve been soaking him twice daily instead of once until the top is secured. The person I got him from had ideal temp and humidity parameters. He looks the same as when I got him… no changes.

I’ll read through those posts, thank you. Any additional feedback on the current set up?

Where on earth did you find that person??? I want to thank them!!! Almost everyone keeps these wonderful babies outside all day and/or completely dry with weekly soaking or no soaking at all because "desert" species... This just made my whole day!

All of the care you outlined above is pretty darn good, but I think I see the culprit. Those dual lighting hoods are usually sold with a "spot" lamp and a cfl type UV bulb. Neither of those bulbs should be used for tortoises. You want a regular incandescent flood bulb for basking and it should be in its own hood. Your Arcadia tube is the best on the market for UV, so the little cfl bulb is totally unnecessary, and you should turn it off ASAP. Spot bulbs concentrate too much IR-A and too much heat into too small of an area, and it can cause the problem you are seeing there. It desiccates the carapace and damages the new growth that is trying to come in between the scutes. They need basking heat, but it should come from a "flood" bulb. No halogens, not spots, no mercury vapor bulbs.

No need to soak more than once a day, but no harm in it either.

I think you will get a lot out of those two threads. Questions are welcome. I'm so glad to know that there will be another healthy thriving DT baby out there instead of what I usually see where people are trying to turn them into beef jerky.

 

[MotherofTortoise]

Where on earth did you find that person??? I want to thank them!!! Almost everyone keeps these wonderful babies outside all day and/or completely dry with weekly soaking or no soaking at all because "desert" species... This just made my whole day!

All of the care you outlined above is pretty darn good, but I think I see the culprit. Those dual lighting hoods are usually sold with a "spot" lamp and a cfl type UV bulb. Neither of those bulbs should be used for tortoises. You want a regular incandescent flood bulb for basking and it should be in its own hood. Your Arcadia tube is the best on the market for UV, so the little cfl bulb is totally unnecessary, and you should turn it off ASAP. Spot bulbs concentrate too much IR-A and too much heat into too small of an area, and it can cause the problem you are seeing there. It desiccates the carapace and damages the new growth that is trying to come in between the scutes. They need basking heat, but it should come from a "flood" bulb. No halogens, not spots, no mercury vapor bulbs.

No need to soak more than once a day, but no harm in it either.

I think you will get a lot out of those two threads. Questions are welcome. I'm so glad to know that there will be another healthy thriving DT baby out there instead of what I usually see where people are trying to turn them into beef jerky.

Ahh I too am relieved! Most people on this forum just get shredded by the people trying to help them and I was preparing for the shred! I got him from a veterinarian that has a special interest in these DT and has raised multiple clutches over the last 15 years. I’ve had multiple species of reptiles over the years and initially was very confident about the husbandry requirements but, with the unfamiliar comes anxiety lol. Thank you so much for your kind words and encouragement.

The substrate is ground coconut coir that is kept moist but not wet. There’s a temp gradient from 100 to 80 degrees - 100 is the basking spot. There is a T5 Pro Desert 12% light the length of the enclosure and the basking spot is a duel fixture with a uvb light and the heat light. There is a humid hide that stays 90 degrees with 80% humidity. Also a cooler hide that is 80 degrees with 60% humidity. The open space is the only thing I’ve been struggling with humidity - stays at an average of 55% We are currently making an enclosure top that will enclose 50ish % of the top to increase the humidity but keep air flow. As a result, I’ve been soaking him twice daily instead of once until the top is secured. The person I got him from had ideal temp and humidity parameters. He looks the same as when I got him… no changes.

I’ll read through those posts, thank you. Any additional feedback on the current set up?

 

[Yvonne G]

You're being too critical. He's beautiful!! Not a thing wrong with him.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

The substrate is ground coconut coir that is kept moist but not wet. There’s a temp gradient from 100 to 80 degrees - 100 is the basking spot. There is a T5 Pro Desert 12% light the length of the enclosure and the basking spot is a duel fixture with a uvb light and the heat light. There is a humid hide that stays 90 degrees with 80% humidity. Also a cooler hide that is 80 degrees with 60% humidity. The open space is the only thing I’ve been struggling with humidity - stays at an average of 55% We are currently making an enclosure top that will enclose 50ish % of the top to increase the humidity but keep air flow. As a result, I’ve been soaking him twice daily instead of once until the top is secured. The person I got him from had ideal temp and humidity parameters. He looks the same as when I got him… no changes.

I’ll read through those posts, thank you. Any additional feedback on the current set up?

He’s absolutely stunning and it’s so refreshing to see how well you’ve got him set up!!as well as toms advice about the bulb, I thought I’d add, that whilst he’s so young, obviously you’re wanting higher humidity(which your achieving in parts of the enclosure) to get a higher humidity reading in the open space, it’ll actually benefit making a topper that covers the entire enclosure instead of just half! Don’t worry about air flow so to speak, set ups are never air tight, he won’t suffocate! Plus when you open up to do daily husbandries, you’re creating more than enough air exchange, I’ve got no experience with these guys, but from my understanding, as with most tortoise babies, closed chambers work best even for this species(having any part open will keep humidity a constant battle)though I’m sure Tom or Yvonne with correct me otherwise

 

[MotherofTortoise]

He’s absolutely stunning and it’s so refreshing to see how well you’ve got him set up!!as well as toms advice about the bulb, I thought I’d add, that whilst he’s so young, obviously you’re wanting higher humidity(which your achieving in parts of the enclosure) to get a higher humidity reading in the open space, it’ll actually benefit making a topper that covers the entire enclosure instead of just half! Don’t worry about air flow so to speak, set ups are never air tight, he won’t suffocate! Plus when you open up to do daily husbandries, you’re creating more than enough air exchange, I’ve got no experience with these guys, but from my understanding, as with most tortoise babies, closed chambers work best even for this species(having any part open will keep humidity a constant battle)though I’m sure Tom or Yvonne with correct me otherwise

Thank you! He really is the cutest little thing

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Most people on this forum just get shredded by the people trying to help them and I was preparing for the shred!

I am sorry you felt that way before posting. I feel like some of it comes from us seeing the same mistakes being made again and again, plus sometimes people aren't open to advice unfortunately. It sometimes gets exhausting.

It is always sad when the conversations go south, usually due to error on both parties.