Just found out rehostat is not working on the Kane mat. Going to get down to 25° tonight. Can I plug mat directly into plug?
Kane mat urgency
- Thread starter Ray--Opo
- Start date
To be on the safe side can you mount it in the side or roof so he/she doesn't lay on it just Incase it gets too hot?
It's 12:45 am , the Kane mat is 85° inside the enclosure is 80°. Outside temp 27°
When mounted on the sides or top it's not as important to have them hooked up to rheostats as it is if they were placed on the floor. Glad it's working good to keep the enclosure nice and warm.
Thanks, it was 48 at noon and mat was 112 and inside enclosure was 95. I unplugged the mat and will plug in again this evening. The RHP's will be good during the day. Ordered a rehostat will be here tomorrow
Why would you not control the mat with a thermostat?
Perhaps you may wish to check with the manufacturer of Kane mats. They say using a rheostat on the mat will void their warranty and should never be done. According to them the mats are engineered to run at a set, specific voltage. Altering that voltage can cause part of the heat elements to heat more than other parts and can cause the mat to malfunction. It also can cause a potential fire danger as a result. They always state the mat should only be used with an on/off (not proportional) thermostat.
Ok thanks they must have changed the wiring system in the mat. Since I bought the mat I have 7 yrs ago. When I bought the mat from Kane. I paid extra for a rehostat in a package deal.
Would you plug the mat into a thermostat that also is used for a RHP? Or use a separate thermostat? The thermostat I have can definitely handle the extra wattage.
Mark, are you sure this is still the case? Kane sells a rheostat (Chinese Amazon brand one at that). The manual says this now "Turn on the heat mat using a thermostat/rheostat control, select the desired temperature. "
I think you are right about using a thermostat on these heat mats. Something has to respond to the the air temperature in the enclosure automatically. If your day time temperature is 65 and your overnight low is 25, a rheostat will need to be adjusted during this time period if you are trying to also keep the air warm.
I don't like to use the Kane mats at all really. I put them on the walls when possible so they can get close without getting too hot from the underside. I prefer to focus on the overall air temperature of the house and ensure that they are not losing too much heat through the floor. I am pretty sure this is also your line of thinking.
I can't imagine that getting too warm from the underside and having to move to a cooler area is a natural night time behavior for any giant tortoise.
Directly from the Kane website. This is for the 18" × 18". Maybe the larger mats are different. I will go back to the website and check.
The way I always understood was the Kane mat would get 30° warmer then the enclosure. As a safety precaution
I think they have some built it temperature safety controls inside of them but I have never taken one apart. The website says they get up to 37f over ambient with a max of 150f.
I personally don't like tortoises to sit on them IF I can keep the air temperature in a desirable range with a different heating method. I find that when mounted on the walls they don't appear to throw off as much heat as any of common radiant heat panels on the market. I will try to look at the ones I have mounted to the walls with my FLIR camera tonight to see what they look like. Mine are thermostatically controlled so they may not get fully up to temperature before turning off.
They are obviously a proven heating method for tortoises but maybe dated? Sure they are tough, cheap and easy but we would never advise someone to put a heat rock in their indoor tortoise enclosure. Tortoises just don't naturally heat themselves like this.
The only ones with a sensor are those that have to be plugged into their thermostat. I think the max they list is the max setting for thermostat, the surface of the mat can hit at least 194 if something is on it trapping heat.
If someone doesn't use a rheostat, stanfield has some mats that are only 20 above ambient so those are probably a safer choice.
I don't think these images add anything but figured I would share them anyways after braving the arctic Florida air to take them.
This is a wall mounted Kane mat. The hottest area is around 119f. The ambient air temp in this night house was ~80f. I don't know how long this mat has been running for because it is on a thermostat.
This mat is immediately to the left of the one in the previous picture. It is very similar in temperature.
This mat is on the floor of a poorly insulated house with no tortoises in it. Ambient air temperature is 44f. It has been powered on for 1 hour. In this case it is 43f over ambient. Not sure if it would get hotter if left on for a few hours, I am not going back out there to find out.
This is a wall mounted Kane mat. The hottest area is around 119f. The ambient air temp in this night house was ~80f. I don't know how long this mat has been running for because it is on a thermostat.
This mat is immediately to the left of the one in the previous picture. It is very similar in temperature.
This mat is on the floor of a poorly insulated house with no tortoises in it. Ambient air temperature is 44f. It has been powered on for 1 hour. In this case it is 43f over ambient. Not sure if it would get hotter if left on for a few hours, I am not going back out there to find out.
Wow that's a great camera thanks for sharing. Are you in northern, central or southern part of Florida?
Just wanted to update for clarification.
I wanted to go directly to the source, so reached out to Scott Johnson - the president of Kane Manufacturing.
He said to me they do offer a rheostat for their mats. So the info I had that they would not recommend using a rheostat was incorrect. However, he did add he would definitely not recommend that for tortoises. The only way he recommends using their mats for tortoises would be with a thermostat controlling the surface temperature of the mat. Otherwise, the mat could get too hot for the tortoise. Without a thermostat, when ambient temperatures rise - the mat will simply get too hot. Even using their rheostat which keeps the mat to 20° above ambient when set to Low, the mat will still heat to 105° in a night house that is 85°. If daytime temps got the night house to 90° it will heat to 110°, etc. The only safe way is a thermostat with sensor on the mat so you can control the temperature of the mat independent of ambient temperature.
This is the same way a heated floor would work. You control and set the temperature of the floor, independent of the ambient temperature of the room. Also the way a natural burrow would work. Ground temperatures stabalize the burrow temperature - when ambient temperature is cool the burrow will keep the tortoise warm, when the ambient temperature is hot - the burrow will keep the tortoise cooler, not continue to heat.
I wanted to go directly to the source, so reached out to Scott Johnson - the president of Kane Manufacturing.
He said to me they do offer a rheostat for their mats. So the info I had that they would not recommend using a rheostat was incorrect. However, he did add he would definitely not recommend that for tortoises. The only way he recommends using their mats for tortoises would be with a thermostat controlling the surface temperature of the mat. Otherwise, the mat could get too hot for the tortoise. Without a thermostat, when ambient temperatures rise - the mat will simply get too hot. Even using their rheostat which keeps the mat to 20° above ambient when set to Low, the mat will still heat to 105° in a night house that is 85°. If daytime temps got the night house to 90° it will heat to 110°, etc. The only safe way is a thermostat with sensor on the mat so you can control the temperature of the mat independent of ambient temperature.
This is the same way a heated floor would work. You control and set the temperature of the floor, independent of the ambient temperature of the room. Also the way a natural burrow would work. Ground temperatures stabalize the burrow temperature - when ambient temperature is cool the burrow will keep the tortoise warm, when the ambient temperature is hot - the burrow will keep the tortoise cooler, not continue to heat.
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Thanks Mark. It would be interesting to see how often a Kane mat cycled on and off with a probe affixed. They take a long time to heat up and I suspect they will continue to get warmer for a period of time after the thermostat initially shuts them off. This is probably a much better job for a PID controller if the mat could handle that.
Thanks Mark, when Opo was smaller, I used a thermostat and duct tape the wire sensor to the mat. When he got bigger, duct tape wouldn't hold up to his strong legs. Do you know of a good way to affix the sensor to the mat?
