Kicking a bucket on cuttle bone

[Kapidolo Farms]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28112674

This thread describes what has become a bias for me regarding this item we all use.
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...ng-cuttlebone-like-crazy.172042/#post-1694159

Oyster shell too, it is recent growing things in the heavily polluted Marine environment.

That's why I have turned to pure limestone as a source for calcium carbonate. It's something formed long before the advent of industrial chemicals and mass pollution. it's more pure.

GO

 

[TammyJ]

Dear Lord. Never even thought of this. So no more Mr. Cuttlebone? Calcium powder and boiled egg crushed up with the shell. OK.

 

[Maro2Bear]

But chickens are encouraged to ingest oyster shells for good strong shell production..

• If you have laying hens, we recommend that you give them ground oyster shells. It is best to do this “free choice” by putting the oyster shells in a separate container, so that the hens can take as much as they need. The eggshell for each egg that your hen lays is about 95% calcium carbonate by dry weight. (Extracted from Murray McMurray)

So, i guess out with egg shells too?

 

[Yvonne G]

I have a big jar of Zoo Med Repticalcium (calcium carbonate). Just now I went and dipped my finger in the jar and tasted it, and there's no taste or smell. Cuttlebone does smell pretty fishy. Do you sell the limestone at Kapidolo Farms?

 

[Tim Carlisle]

First plastic straws, and now cuttlebone. You can't have my Bud Light! lol

 

[KarenSoCal]

Cuttlebone should smell like fish, shouldn't it? It IS fish.

I'm not understanding this...are you folks saying that the cuttlebone we buy has already been used to suck up metals from the sea, then sold to us for our birds and torts?

Or that the impurities are in the cuttlebone while it is still in the cuttlefish?

Maybe I shouldn't send this post...I'm wondering about my mind...[emoji53]

 

[Markw84]

@Will This paper deals with cuttlebone as a dead biomass. Much like carbon is used for removing heavy metals from water. How does this apply to cuttlebone removed from a cuttlefish (squid) during processing where the cuttlebone was not exposed to seawater as a dead biomass?

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

But chickens are encouraged to ingest oyster shells for good strong shell production..

• If you have laying hens, we recommend that you give them ground oyster shells. It is best to do this “free choice” by putting the oyster shells in a separate container, so that the hens can take as much as they need. The eggshell for each egg that your hen lays is about 95% calcium carbonate by dry weight. (Extracted from Murray McMurray)

So, i guess out with egg shells too?

Why out with the eggshell ? I still mix the eggshell powder with the calcium carbonate ( like a time capsule)

 

[zovick]

@Will This paper deals with cuttlebone as a dead biomass. Much like carbon is used for removing heavy metals from water. How does this apply to cuttlebone removed from a cuttlefish (squid) during processing where the cuttlebone was not exposed to seawater as a dead biomass?

If the squid grew up in the polluted ocean, then the bone it has formed while growing has been formed from those food items ingested by the squid which also contain pollutants. Hence, the squid is "polluted" as well. The reasoning is similar to that of fishing in a stream which was or still is polluted. The fishing is allowed only on a "catch and release" basis. No consumption of the fish is permitted.

 

[Markw84]

If the squid grew up in the polluted ocean, then the bone it has formed while growing has been formed from those food items ingested by the squid which also contain pollutants. Hence, the squid is "polluted" as well. The reasoning is similar to that of fishing in a stream which was or still is polluted. The fishing is allowed only on a "catch and release" basis. No consumption of the fish is permitted.

Understood. However my question is about how this paper is only about the results of tests as an inert biomass. There is a huge difference between the way pollutants are metabolized in a living organism and how a dead biomass absorbs chemicals it is exposed to.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

For me the big concern regards these highly intelligent animals,(cuttlefish) being harvested for a bone that we can replace using by simply using “limestone flour “. As I’ve said, I make a pile of the flour in the outdoor yard for free grazing as well as broadcast over the graze. My tortoises free graze from the pile when they need it. I’ve seen calcium scrapes in Africa but never cuttlefish bones laying around.

 

[Yvonne G]

One of our Forum members, I think Dean S or maybe Neal, mentioned that they fill a tiny receptacle with calcium powder and just leave it sitting in the enclosure. They eat it when they feel the need. I like that idea.

 

[TechnoCheese]

One of our Forum members, I think Dean S or maybe Neal, mentioned that they fill a tiny receptacle with calcium powder and just leave it sitting in the enclosure. They eat it when they feel the need. I like that idea.

I know people do that with leopard geckos, and it seems to work okay.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

One of our Forum members, I think Dean S or maybe Neal, mentioned that they fill a tiny receptacle with calcium powder and just leave it sitting in the enclosure. They eat it when they feel the need. I like that idea.

My Marginals have 2 water dish’s for years but they will not go to the second one even if the first is empty , so I put a third one in their enclosure they will not use it either ! So I don’t trust them to use a dish of calcium!

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

My Marginals have 2 water dish’s for years but they will not go to the second one even if the first is empty , so I put a third one in their enclosure they will not use it either ! So I don’t trust them to use a dish of calcium!

Good thing they eat on their own. LOL

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Good thing they eat on their own. LOL

Yes ! I spoil my torts more then my wife and kids ( but my kids are almost 40 years old ) So I guess my torts are my children ![emoji217]

 

[Toddrickfl1]

I put a cuttlebone in my Redfoots enclosure when I got him last January and he hasn't touched it once? It's still sitting there a year later.

 

[surfergirl]

My Margie eats calcium when needed out of a bottle cap. I use cuttlebones as well because they are more resilent to the harsh enclosure enviro. A cap of calcium carbonate gets thrashed, lol

I am going to try going back to the self dosing cap method. I do not find that my torts eat much cuttlebones if I feed them well anyway.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I have used all of these things, limestone flower, cuttle-bone, oyster shell as flakes and 'chunks' and have only had that one issue with the one leopard tortoise as I posted it for another thread and linked it in the OP here. What drew me to cuttle done is that it should contain other elements 'nutrients' that compliment calcium carbonate as 'bone'. It is the relecitual protein in it that offers that certain distinct 'fishy smell', even if just a % or two of dried mass. It's not like we are using 'medical grade' cuttle-bone which has been cleaned for human use medicine.

But it got to thinking. Most tortoises supplement their calcium intake by eating bones they find and little bits of calcium rich 'rocks'. Often, at least for species that share habitat with hyenas, that bone is in hyena poop. They will also take advantage of egg shell, even their own as hatchlings eating their own egg shell.

I still do chop up some chicken egg shell with hard-boiled egg, when I don't 'hard-boil' in the microwave, without shell.

Heavy metals are well known in pelagic fish, fish are bioaccumulators of many pollutants. Pre industrial age limestone still has some 'undesirable' composition to it, but it is clean enough to meet 'organic' food criteria. That's what sparked that specific interest. I know there are naysayers for 'organic' I'm a pro-organic foods person.

I've been using limestone based calcium carbonate for a few months now. I bought 4 - 50# pails of it after an initial small quantity trial, as I maximized the opportunity to get it cheap. Yeah I sell it, any diet item order will get a free small amount, on-top of any other diet item sought for free. I ran out of labels already, so I'll refer to this post for 'Label suggested uses' - Toss in 1/8 teaspoon per head (or equivalent) of greens fed, two to three times a week.

To everyone who suggest they get enough calcium directly from a proper diet, I suggest you suggest why you think tortoises in the wild that eat a 'proper diet' still supplement their greens with eggs shell, hyena poop, and bits of calcium rich rocks? They seek more than is in their diet.