Leopard Tortoise Allergic to Moss?

[LeoTheLeopardTort]

Hi there! I'm new here and had a question about my sweet baby Leopard Tortoise, Leo. I received Leo on May 6th of this year. I'm not 100% sure how old he is, but I'm guessing he was about 2-3 months old when I got him, so he's probably about 5-6 months old now. He's always been bright eyed, eats well, sleeps a lot, and is active a few hours a day. Lately, he's been making a lot of noises. Some sound like a Minnie Mouse sneeze, others sound like air escaping (like maybe he was passing gas), and the most recent ones sound like cries. He also makes a clicking noise when he eats, but I'm not really worried about that because it happens whenever he bites, so I figured it was just his beak when he bites down. I've watched him while he's making some of these noises and he doesn't always have his mouth open when he makes them. I didn't notice any other symptoms other than the noises, so I figured I just might have a noisy tortoise. Friday night, he started blowing bubbles from his nose (they appear to be clear), had a couple bubbles in his mouth, and started stretching out his neck with his mouth open and making little crying and clicking noises when he wasn't eating (but still usually after he opened his mouth). I was afraid he had RNS or a RI so I started looking up reptile vets and found one a little over an hour away and planned to take him today or tomorrow to have him checked out. On Saturday, he seemed to really be struggling to breathe, doing a lot of the stretched neck open mouth breathing and making little cries, and I wasn't able to take him to the vet over the weekend, so I soaked him while I cleaned out his enclosure just to see if that would help. I had some terrarium moss on both ends of the enclosure that he LOVED to hide in. That's where he spent most of his time, under the moss located under his lamp. That's also where he made the most noise. I tried to keep the moss under the lamp damp while the moss on the cool side stayed dry. I've been wondering if maybe he was allergic to it since he seemed to make all these noises when he was under it, so I removed it. Man, was he not happy about that!! He loved hiding under his moss!! Anyway, Saturday night after cleaning his enclosure and removing the moss, he was active for several hours, more active than he had been lately, and he ate better than he had in the last few days. Sunday, he slept most of the day, but only made noises a couple times all day, and only opened his mouth once or twice and it looked more like a yawn than the neck stretched out breathing he was doing. I also didn't notice any nose or mouth bubbles on Sunday. So far today (Monday), he has made zero noise, I haven't seen any nose or mouth bubbles, he's been crawling all over the place, and eating and drinking. So I'm wondering is it possible that Leo was allergic to the terrarium moss and that was causing his issues? I'm still going to take him to the vet to have him checked out, but I'm really curious if anyone else has had an allergy issue with their Leopard. I've included (hopefully!) my most recent picture of him from last night. Thanks in advance!

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Respiratory infection sounds more likely that allergies. What are you high and low temperatures, day and night?

 

[Gillian M]

Hi there! I'm new here and had a question about my sweet baby Leopard Tortoise, Leo. I received Leo on May 6th of this year. I'm not 100% sure how old he is, but I'm guessing he was about 2-3 months old when I got him, so he's probably about 5-6 months old now. He's always been bright eyed, eats well, sleeps a lot, and is active a few hours a day. Lately, he's been making a lot of noises. Some sound like a Minnie Mouse sneeze, others sound like air escaping (like maybe he was passing gas), and the most recent ones sound like cries. He also makes a clicking noise when he eats, but I'm not really worried about that because it happens whenever he bites, so I figured it was just his beak when he bites down. I've watched him while he's making some of these noises and he doesn't always have his mouth open when he makes them. I didn't notice any other symptoms other than the noises, so I figured I just might have a noisy tortoise. Friday night, he started blowing bubbles from his nose (they appear to be clear), had a couple bubbles in his mouth, and started stretching out his neck with his mouth open and making little crying and clicking noises when he wasn't eating (but still usually after he opened his mouth). I was afraid he had RNS or a RI so I started looking up reptile vets and found one a little over an hour away and planned to take him today or tomorrow to have him checked out. On Saturday, he seemed to really be struggling to breathe, doing a lot of the stretched neck open mouth breathing and making little cries, and I wasn't able to take him to the vet over the weekend, so I soaked him while I cleaned out his enclosure just to see if that would help. I had some terrarium moss on both ends of the enclosure that he LOVED to hide in. That's where he spent most of his time, under the moss located under his lamp. That's also where he made the most noise. I tried to keep the moss under the lamp damp while the moss on the cool side stayed dry. I've been wondering if maybe he was allergic to it since he seemed to make all these noises when he was under it, so I removed it. Man, was he not happy about that!! He loved hiding under his moss!! Anyway, Saturday night after cleaning his enclosure and removing the moss, he was active for several hours, more active than he had been lately, and he ate better than he had in the last few days. Sunday, he slept most of the day, but only made noises a couple times all day, and only opened his mouth once or twice and it looked more like a yawn than the neck stretched out breathing he was doing. I also didn't notice any nose or mouth bubbles on Sunday. So far today (Monday), he has made zero noise, I haven't seen any nose or mouth bubbles, he's been crawling all over the place, and eating and drinking. So I'm wondering is it possible that Leo was allergic to the terrarium moss and that was causing his issues? I'm still going to take him to the vet to have him checked out, but I'm really curious if anyone else has had an allergy issue with their Leopard. I've included (hopefully!) my most recent picture of him from last night. Thanks in advance!

View attachment 182853

A very warm welcome to the forum to you and Leo. Sorry, the pic you posted did not show up. Would you please try to post it again? Thanks!
And please post a pic of Leo's enclosure.

Give Leo daily soaks in warm water and make sure there is enough humidity and warmth. As for the age, it is extremely difficult to tell the age of a tort.

Read the "Beginners Mistakes" Thread and the care sheets an keep asking questions.

I agree with your taking Leo to a vet, good luck! And please keep us updated.

 

[wellington]

I guess it is possible. However it does sound more like an RI. Be sure your temps are no lower then 80 day and night and this is with the humidity at 80%. Then the basking spot should be 95-100, 110.
you can at this point, if he seems much better, to make sure his temps and humidity are correct, but raising the 80 temp to 85 for a couple weeks to be sure all symptoms are gone and he's back to normal, or take him to a qualified vet and have him checked out.
Please keep us informed.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Welcome to the forum.
Plenty of leopard keepers here to help you out.
i'm not a leopard keeper, but I would say RI is more likely than an allergy also.
When visiting the vet, make sure it's a reputable herp vet as others can be worse than useless sometimes.

 

[LeoTheLeopardTort]

Thanks everyone! I use a 160w PowerSun bulb during the day and a red heat bulb at night. During the day, the temps are normally around 90F-95F on the hot side and 77F-80F. Night temps are usually around 84F on the warm side and 75F-80F on the cool side. I just lowered his lamp some to increase the temps. I will continue checking today to see how warm it gets in his enclosure. I also have digital humidity gauges on both sides, but I'm not sure that they are entirely accurate. If anyone knows of a good thermometer and humidity gauge, please let me know! I've been researching for better ones but keep getting mixed reviews.

I do soak him everyday for about 30-40 mins, sometimes longer if he starts walking around because that usually means there's a good chance he's going to poop (at least for Leo). I also have a water bowl of sorts in his enclosure. It is a dish with a water bottle in the middle and a little fence around it so he can stick his head in to drink but can't get his whole body in. It reminds me of hay feeders for cows! Before getting that water dish, I was using a bottle cap as a water dish. A vet recommended it to me so my tort could have a water source but I wouldn't have to worry about the little guy drowning as much as with a normal water dish, and it was supposed to be better bacteria wise since he couldn't get into it and defecate in it. He hasn't quite figured out this new dish yet, but I just put it in there on Saturday. He's been drinking during his daily soaks.

The vet I found was listed on a herpvetconnection.com. They seemed to have good reviews. I live in a very small town with no local reptile vet. The one I found on that site is about an hour and a half away.

I just took some pictures of his enclosure. He doesn't have any foliage in there right now to hide in since I took out the moss. I have Timothy hay I could put in there, but since his symptoms seem to have gotten better and he's acting like he's feeling better, I'm afraid to put any other plants/hays in there right now. Thank you for the Beginners thread! I will definitely check that out! I had a tortoise before Leo but lost him earlier this year, so I've been a bit paranoid with Leo. Very glad I found this site! I'm going to attempt to attach the pictures! Let me know if they don't show up.

 

[wellington]

Don't use the hay, too drying and molds easily. The water dish should be a low sided clay saucer. You want them to do into it is they want too. You could still use the waterer you are using now, but add one he can get into. Hope he keeps acting better.

 

[Gillian M]

View attachment 182885 View attachment 182886 View attachment 182888 View attachment 182890 Thanks everyone! I use a 160w PowerSun bulb during the day and a red heat bulb at night. During the day, the temps are normally around 90F-95F on the hot side and 77F-80F. Night temps are usually around 84F on the warm side and 75F-80F on the cool side. I just lowered his lamp some to increase the temps. I will continue checking today to see how warm it gets in his enclosure. I also have digital humidity gauges on both sides, but I'm not sure that they are entirely accurate. If anyone knows of a good thermometer and humidity gauge, please let me know! I've been researching for better ones but keep getting mixed reviews.

I do soak him everyday for about 30-40 mins, sometimes longer if he starts walking around because that usually means there's a good chance he's going to poop (at least for Leo). I also have a water bowl of sorts in his enclosure. It is a dish with a water bottle in the middle and a little fence around it so he can stick his head in to drink but can't get his whole body in. It reminds me of hay feeders for cows! Before getting that water dish, I was using a bottle cap as a water dish. A vet recommended it to me so my tort could have a water source but I wouldn't have to worry about the little guy drowning as much as with a normal water dish, and it was supposed to be better bacteria wise since he couldn't get into it and defecate in it. He hasn't quite figured out this new dish yet, but I just put it in there on Saturday. He's been drinking during his daily soaks.

The vet I found was listed on a herpvetconnection.com. They seemed to have good reviews. I live in a very small town with no local reptile vet. The one I found on that site is about an hour and a half away.

I just took some pictures of his enclosure. He doesn't have any foliage in there right now to hide in since I took out the moss. I have Timothy hay I could put in there, but since his symptoms seem to have gotten better and he's acting like he's feeling better, I'm afraid to put any other plants/hays in there right now. Thank you for the Beginners thread! I will definitely check that out! I had a tortoise before Leo but lost him earlier this year, so I've been a bit paranoid with Leo. Very glad I found this site! I'm going to attempt to attach the pictures! Let me know if they don't show up.

A cute tort! GOD bless.

 

[Tom]

Tortoises and other non-domestic animals don't usually have allergies. An allergic reaction in a wild animal with no medical care available would almost certainly be a death sentence and that animal's genetic material would quickly vanish from the gene pool.

I think your temperatures are too cool all around. Because the tortoise is showing symptoms, get your ambient up to no lower than 85 all over the whole enclosure day or night. Let daytime ambient creep into the low 90s. Get your basking area up to 100-105. Keep things this warm for at least two weeks after symptoms stop. Once he's all better, you can lower temps a bit, but do keep night temps no lower than 80 all around.

 

[LeoTheLeopardTort]

Thank you! I've lowered his lamp some more and the temps are going up. I'll continue to monitor the temps. He does seem to be feeling better, much better than he was Saturday. He came running to his dish as soon as I put food in it, so that's definitely an improvement! I also don't see any bubbles on his nose or in his mouth now.

 

[Linhdan Nguyen]

Look at that adorable face! Glad hes feeling better