Leopard Tortoise Temperatures

[GeorgeUK]

Hello This is my first thread outside of the introduction section of this wonderful forum.

I've kept exotic animals since I was 15, and before getting any animal I always do vast amounts of research so I can ensure I'm providing the best care.

Lady Dorothy is my first Leopard Tortoise and she is lovely. One thing that I have found while researching her care, is that temperature guides differ quite a lot depending on FORUM and State/Country. (I'm based in England, UK)

I read that a basking temperature of between 32C (89F) & 41C (105F) is perfect for the Leopard Tortoise. However these figures seem to change quite a lot depending on region, the Tortoises age, and personal opinion.

Lady Dorothy currently has a basking temperature of 41C (105F), however I have noticed she is only spending a short period of time in the basking area before cooling off in her pool in the cooler area of her enclosure. Then, she heads back and basks again. I only collected her this morning so I'm fairly confident her pacing back and forth may also be her getting accustomed to her new surroundings.

With that being said, I thought I would double check and see what kind of opinions I got on an average daily basking temperature.
All opinions are welcome. I have even read that 110F would be fine, though others claimed that was too hot so I brushed that temperature aside.

I have included a picture of my set-up. At the moment she is on a Sand/Soil mixture at a ratio of 25/75 though I do intend on changing to an alternative substrate shortly.
Note; the UVB bulb is missing because of a delivery failure. I'm going to collect and install one over the next couple of days & have Calcium dust in the mean time.

Currently using a 100W bulb with a ceramic holder. The bulb is fixed within the metal bars of the enclosure and I have added cable ties for extra protection.

Thank you for taking the time to read this

 

[Lyn W]

Me again George!!
You could do with covering over or around the cage with something to stop you losing heat. Some people use plastic which also keeps humidity in but the lights need to be inside so you need to make sure that it is safe. The Enclosures thread may give ideas.
What are you using for night heat at the mo? I don't think temps should fall much lower than about 75 - 80 at night.
I use a ceramic heat emitter which just gives heat but no light as torts need darkness to sleep. This is run through a thermostat so that it switches on and off to stop temps getting too hot or cold Both Komodo and from The Range £21 and £34 . use it with a wide dome hood to reflect heat down.
Also is the water dish big enough for Dorothy to lie in to self soak? I'm not very good at judging the size in pics.
Hope that helps.

 

[GeorgeUK]

Me again George!!
You could do with covering over or around the cage with something to stop you losing heat. Some people use plastic which also keeps humidity in but the lights need to be inside so you need to make sure that it is safe. The Enclosures thread may give ideas.
What are you using for night heat at the mo? I don't think temps should fall much lower than about 75 - 80 at night.
I use a ceramic heat emitter which just gives heat but no light as torts need darkness to sleep. This is run through a thermostat so that it switches on and off to stop temps getting too hot or cold Both Komodo and from The Range £21 and £34 . use it with a wide dome hood to reflect heat down.
Also is the water dish big enough for Dorothy to lie in to self soak? I'm not very good at judging the size in pics.
Hope that helps.

Hi Lyn, thank you for your response!
I am going to look at options for the sides of the enclosure, I have seen plastic lids with a mesh air vent which would fit my enclosure perfectly. I used one of those on a Russian tortoise enclosure I had and it worked really well

I don't have a night time heat source at the moment but I know for sure that my room never gets below 75 as I'm usually awake throughout the night & have been checking on our thermometer since I knew I was getting Dorothy. I will invest in a CHE soon though to be on the safe side (I hear we are in for some pretty cold weather up north! :-()

I added a much larger dish earlier this evening after this photo was taken to accommodate her size. She's been in it already

I'm heading to The Range tomorrow so I will look out for the stat

 

[Lyn W]

Hi Lyn, thank you for your response!
I am going to look at options for the sides of the enclosure, I have seen plastic lids with a mesh air vent which would fit my enclosure perfectly. I used one of those on a Russian tortoise enclosure I had and it worked really well

I don't have a night time heat source at the moment but I know for sure that my room never gets below 75 as I'm usually awake throughout the night & have been checking on our thermometer since I knew I was getting Dorothy. I will invest in a CHE soon though to be on the safe side (I hear we are in for some pretty cold weather up north! :-()

I added a much larger dish earlier this evening after this photo was taken to accommodate her size. She's been in it already

I'm heading to The Range tomorrow so I will look out for the stat

Some people use black bulbs at night as an extra heat source to room temp. This is cheaper than che but don't know if bulbs work on thermostats, I know my mvb doesn't because when they switch off they have a delay before they come back on so may not switch on when you need them to.

 

[GeorgeUK]

Some people use black bulbs at night as an extra heat source to room temp. This is cheaper than che but don't know if bulbs work on thermostats, I know my mvb doesn't because when they switch off they have a delay before they come back on so may not switch on when you need them to.

I'll have a look into those too Thank you Lyn for the information, it's appreciated

Do you use a stat with your main heat bulb? (daytime basking) I know dimming stats are used a lot.

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. I would replace the sand right away, it can cause impactions. Be sure you don't get any coil bulbs, they cause eye problems. As suggested, the enclosure needs to be covered to help hold in heat and humidity. With a high humidity like 80% the temps, day and night should not go below 80f.

 

[Lyn W]

No I only use the mvb at day (with the che as well when chilly).
The mvb gives light, heat and uvb, so just that.
I wouldn't think you will need more than the mvb in your cage as it isn't too big.
You will need uvb asap as torts need it to digest their food and absorb nutrients etc.
As Wellington says
correct heat + humidity = healthy tort
too cold + humidity = sick tort.

 

[GeorgeUK]

No I only use the mvb at day (with the che as well when chilly).
The mvb gives light, heat and uvb, so just that.
I wouldn't think you will need more than the mvb in your cage as it isn't too big.
You will need uvb asap as torts need it to digest their food and absorb nutrients etc.
As Wellington says
correct heat + humidity = healthy tort
too cold + humidity = sick tort.

I looked into the MVB you told me about & for the price of a new ceramic fitting & UV bulb, I might as well invest in the MVB as they seem to cover everything.
I will head to the DIY store tomorrow & The Range, to get those sides & substrate sorted.

I guess these are the beginner wobbles I hear about despite my vast amounts of research it seems I still have a lot to learn
In the mean time, Dorothy is sleeping

 

[Tom]

Here is the problem with "research": Back in 1200AD, if you read about the world and how to go from one place to another, you would have read all about how the world was flat and if you go too close to the edge, you will fall off and never be seen or heard from again. You would also like have heard all sorts of stories about man eating sea monsters. Since then we've learned better.

So it is with tortoise care as well. I can't tell you how to figure out who to believe, but I would consider both experience level AND results. Many people talk all day, but show nothing of their results. Andy Highfield, who is regarded as a knowledgeable tortoise guy came here, argued with me for 18 pages about a difference of 10% humidity, showed ONE single tortoise and then got all offended and butt-hurt because I asked for more details on how he achieved his results. This is silly. This forums pages are filled with both my results and the results oh hundreds of other people also using the same, or similar methods.

Its up to you to decide which way you want to go.

I would recommend for you:
1. A much larger enclosure.
2. A closed chamber, especially in your climate. So much more efficient and also better for your tortoise.
3. Different substrate ASAP. I find orchid bark to be the best for leopards.
4. What sort of UV bulb have you got coming? The cfl types can burn their eyes and they are not very effective as a UV source anyway.
5. Flower pots are fine, but your tortoise needs a humid hide.
6. You need night heat. 75 in a dry open enclosure is okay, not great, but okay, but in an enclosure with better humidity levels, you'll want to keep it warmer.

Here are some threads to help explain better:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[Lyn W]

The MVB was £39 at Pets at Home (Arcadia mini D3 80W)
You will need a ceramic bulb holder for that too (ideally with a wide dome hood to direct heat down) about £25 PaH or Range
But a che and thermostat would also be invaluable
It is expensive to start off but worth it because if LD gets sick it will cost you a hell of a lot more in vets bills.
You never stop learning with torts - I still learn something new every day!!

 

[GeorgeUK]

Here is the problem with "research": Back in 1200AD, if you read about the world and how to go from one place to another, you would have read all about how the world was flat and if you go too close to the edge, you will fall off and never be seen or heard from again. You would also like have heard all sorts of stories about man eating sea monsters. Since then we've learned better.

So it is with tortoise care as well. I can't tell you how to figure out who to believe, but I would consider both experience level AND results. Many people talk all day, but show nothing of their results. Andy Highfield, who is regarded as a knowledgeable tortoise guy came here, argued with me for 18 pages about a difference of 10% humidity, showed ONE single tortoise and then got all offended and butt-hurt because I asked for more details on how he achieved his results. This is silly. This forums pages are filled with both my results and the results oh hundreds of other people also using the same, or similar methods.

Its up to you to decide which way you want to go.

I would recommend for you:
1. A much larger enclosure.
2. A closed chamber, especially in your climate. So much more efficient and also better for your tortoise.
3. Different substrate ASAP. I find orchid bark to be the best for leopards.
4. What sort of UV bulb have you got coming? The cfl types can burn their eyes and they are not very effective as a UV source anyway.
5. Flower pots are fine, but your tortoise needs a humid hide.
6. You need night heat. 75 in a dry open enclosure is okay, not great, but okay, but in an enclosure with better humidity levels, you'll want to keep it warmer.

Here are some threads to help explain better:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Thank you Tom, I really appreciate your honesty & advise. I will take note moving forward

I was going to use an individual UVB bulb, however I am now converted to the idea of a MVB.

Substrate will be changed immediately, as it's been suggested by almost everyone I've spoken to on here.

The enclosure is large, and she has lots of space to walk around (granted, I'm sure the more space the better).

I live in a large property with a big garden and spare bedrooms so the ultimate goal is to build a custom enclosure which will allow her even more space. I'm aware they get big, and I'm prepared for that.

 

[GeorgeUK]

The MVB was £39 at Pets at Home (Arcadia mini D3 80W)
You will need a ceramic bulb holder for that too (ideally with a wide dome hood to direct heat down) about £25 PaH or Range
But a che and thermostat would also be invaluable
It is expensive to start off but worth it because if LD gets sick it will cost you a hell of a lot more in vets bills.
You never stop learning with torts - I still learn something new every day!!

Thank you Lyn, I will head there when I get paid and buy both the MVB & a hood (I get paid in a couple of days)

Lady Dorothy will get plenty of UVB in the mean time as one side of my room is a glass sliding door, which lets in a lot of sunlight & I also have calcium dust too.

The cost doesn't worry me too much as I want her to have the best and like you said, it's worth the investment in the long run. I like how MVB's come with a one year guarantee, most of the bulbs I had years ago used to blow every other week.

It seems the equipment and information is much better/easily available than it was back in 2009

 

[Lyn W]

That's why a wide dome shade is recommended because with the deep domes bulbs overheat and burn out.
Mvbs are quite sensitive to bumps etc but if careful they should last a while - although I think I read that uvb does diminish after about 6 months, may depend on the brand though. My next big buy is going to be a uvb meter so I can check that - about £200 - 300
UVB not effective through glass or any form of screen - sorry!

 

[GeorgeUK]

That's why a wide dome shade is recommended because with the deep domes bulbs overheat and burn out.
Mvbs are quite sensitive to bumps etc but if careful they should last a while - although I think I read that uvb does diminish after about 6 months, may depend on the brand though. My next big buy is going to be a uvb meter so I can check that - about £200 - 300
UVB not effective through glass or any form of screen - sorry!

I should know that, I probably did know that, ah, I'm being slow this evening :-D

Thank you Lyn

Ah, that is a big buy! Good investment though!

 

[GeorgeUK]

Update:
Following on from advise on this thread, via Private Message & also from further reading on this forum I have made some immediate improvements to Lady Dorothy's enclosure.

Firstly I have cancelled my order for a UVB lamp which was already delayed due to delivery issues and I have ordered a MVB instead, and paid an extra £5 for next day delivery so she can be under UVB sooner. It should arrive tomorrow/Monday.
I have also removed the 25% Sand & 75% Top Soil mix I was using as substrate.

This has been replaced with Orchid Bark. I have also bought a larger water tray for soaking & added humidity, with a layer of pebbles. (The pebbles have been repeatedly washed in boiling water)

I'm also going to buy some hide boxes tonight. These will provide extra warmth in the night until I buy a CHE & thermostat. I will add sphagnum moss for added humidity.

Hopefully these small changes will make big improvements to her current enclosure until I can convert one of our spare bedrooms into an even better space for her

Temperature opinions are still welcome and appreciated on this thread

 

[Lyn W]

Update:
Following on from advise on this thread, via Private Message & also from further reading on this forum I have made some immediate improvements to Lady Dorothy's enclosure.

Firstly I have cancelled my order for a UVB lamp which was already delayed due to delivery issues and I have ordered a MVB instead, and paid an extra £5 for next day delivery so she can be under UVB sooner. It should arrive tomorrow/Monday.
I have also removed the 25% Sand & 75% Top Soil mix I was using as substrate.

This has been replaced with Orchid Bark. I have also bought a larger water tray for soaking & added humidity, with a layer of pebbles. (The pebbles have been repeatedly washed in boiling water)

I'm also going to buy some hide boxes tonight. These will provide extra warmth in the night until I buy a CHE & thermostat. I will add sphagnum moss for added humidity.

Hopefully these small changes will make big improvements to her current enclosure until I can convert one of our spare bedrooms into an even better space for her

Temperature opinions are still welcome and appreciated on this thread

You'll get there in the end! I am constantly trying to improve Lola's room - I've been to Pets at Home to buy a new Arcadia mvb today. To save money you could use a small upturned plastic box/bowl with a door cut into it for a humid hide for him. I use the top of a cat loo for my monster with some sphagnum moss in it. Then just keep one of the pots.