Light-time

[Rexx Doopson]

Would it be ok to leave my leo hatchling's and adult russian's lights on during night time while I am present, and turn it off during the day? This would also help with temperatures, for its usually warmer during the day, so no or less heating is to be used while the torts are sleeping, and would be much better compared to sleeping in a time of colder temps.

 

[leigti]

Lights on during the night will mess with their sleep cycles. Russians don't necessarily need heat at night as long as the room stays above 60 or 70°. But your hatchling will definitely need heat 24 hours a day, 80° or above is the recommendation. Can you use a ceramic heat emitter for the hatchling?

 

[leigti]

A ceramic heat emitter CH EE does get very hot.

 

[Rexx Doopson]

For now all he has is a basking and a reptisun, and for night i've been using a closed chamber idea with tinfoil to conserve heat. Where I live heat ranges from the 70's to 80's all year day and night, but usually around the low 70's (regarding the hatchling). But occasionally it does go around low to mid 80's

 

[leigti]

With those temperatures your Russian definitely does not need heat at night. Get a temperature gun so that you can very easily check the temperatures in all parts of your enclosure. Those little dial ones that you stick to the side are not accurate. Are you able to build outdoor enclosures? Where are you located?

 

[Yvonne G]

If you can make it very dark, like night time, during the day, I see no reason why the tortoise's day time can't be our night time. They need a day/night cycle just as we do, so if your day time can be in a real dark room so they will think it's night, it would be ok.

 

[Tom]

Rexx, you need to heat and light your tortoises correctly. Failure to do so is likely to result in their death.

Your baby leopard should not be getting that cold at night. If you have to, put the enclosure in a bathroom with the door closed and run a space heater at night until you can get the proper set up with the correct heating and lighting elements.

Your russian does not need night heat in his enclosure.

What kind of Repti-sun bulb are you using? Is it one of those coil types? Those can sometimes damage reptile eyes and I recommend you don't use one.

 

[Rexx Doopson]

Its not the coil type.

If you can make it very dark, like night time, during the day, I see no reason why the tortoise's day time can't be our night time. They need a day/night cycle just as we do, so if your day time can be in a real dark room so they will think it's night, it would be ok.

I have black out curtains that could do this.

With those temperatures your Russian definitely does not need heat at night. Get a temperature gun so that you can very easily check the temperatures in all parts of your enclosure. Those little dial ones that you stick to the side are not accurate. Are you able to build outdoor enclosures? Where are you located?

I am located in the Bay Area so outdoor enclosures for a hatchling now can't be done due to cold outside weather.

Rexx, you need to heat and light your tortoises correctly. Failure to do so is likely to result in their death.

Your baby leopard should not be getting that cold at night. If you have to, put the enclosure in a bathroom with the door closed and run a space heater at night until you can get the proper set up with the correct heating and lighting elements.

Your russian does not need night heat in his enclosure.

What kind of Repti-sun bulb are you using? Is it one of those coil types? Those can sometimes damage reptile eyes and I recommend you don't use one.

I've purchased a CHE and will be adding that to the use of the basking and reptisun I have now. I am currently looking towards a good thermostat with gauges for temps and humidity (any suggestions?). Maintaining humidity is done with sphagnum moss and misting (plus 30 minutes soaks in the moring and a small one before the last meal. I've read the care links, but any flaws I might still have? Most of my heat maintaining is influenced by Yvonne's Ideas, as well as the baby enclosure thread. I'm going to buy a cement mixing tub today

 

[Rexx Doopson]

If you can make it very dark, like night time, during the day, I see no reason why the tortoise's day time can't be our night time. They need a day/night cycle just as we do, so if your day time can be in a real dark room so they will think it's night, it would be ok.

I'm wondering, in your baby enclosure build thread you said that you don't monitor temperatures, and that if the torts are warm, healthy, active and eating everything should seem ok? Would this be a good way for me instead of monitoring temps too? Sure, I'll still get a thermostat to check humidity too, but if those signs are vivid do you think things are ok?

 

[Yvonne G]

I guess it's just years and years of experience with me. I set up my lights the same distance from the floor of the habitat as I've been doing for years. I moisten the substrate as I've always done. I cover the enclosure with foil as I've always done. The babies eat and are active and thrive until time to move out of the 'starter' tub. I have never had the occasion to worry about any of them, as they eat and act normal. I take my clues from the tortoise.

 

[Rexx Doopson]

I'll be sure to use some of your advice with the help of a thermostat. I'm waiting for a CHE online order (but for a couple more days), but the tub will be set up before that. Do you think your closed tinfoil would be ok to maintain heat until the bulb comes? I've a feeling that works for you because you live in mid CA, so things would be different here on the coast.

 

[Yvonne G]

In the meantime, you can get buy using a regular household incandescent light bulb for heat.

 

[Tom]

Its not the coil type.

I have black out curtains that could do this.

I am located in the Bay Area so outdoor enclosures for a hatchling now can't be done due to cold outside weather.

I've purchased a CHE and will be adding that to the use of the basking and reptisun I have now. I am currently looking towards a good thermostat with gauges for temps and humidity (any suggestions?). Maintaining humidity is done with sphagnum moss and misting (plus 30 minutes soaks in the moring and a small one before the last meal. I've read the care links, but any flaws I might still have? Most of my heat maintaining is influenced by Yvonne's Ideas, as well as the baby enclosure thread. I'm going to buy a cement mixing tub today

Here is a thermostat idea. I've been using this type for many years and they've worked well for me.
http://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller

If you want something a little better, you can go here (See link below.) and get one in the $70-100 range. I have the Dwyer one and two of the Ranco ones. In all honesty they don't work any better than the Zilla ones, but they are more complex to program. Some people report probelms with the cheaper types and the more expensive types are reported as more reliable, but I've had no problems with any of them in a very wide variety of applications.
http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats

The large cement mixing tubs are too small for an adult russian and to open and shallow for a baby leopard. Think in terms of a sheet of plywood with walls for your russian, and some sort of closed chamber for your leopard.

 

[Rexx Doopson]

I have a shallow-ish storage container that is pretty roomy and big. I am going to cover half with a cover (to retain humidity, and be the cool part). I'm using Yvonnes closed idea, also adding that I'm putting the enclosure under a wood structure (an Ikea desk that is closed on 3 out of 4 sides and on top. I'll be posting picks of the new setup soon). I'm using a clamp lamp for his basking bulb (i'm also wondering, the bulb says it contains UVA, is that a good replacement of UVB as a good UV source?).

 

[Tom]

I have a shallow-ish storage container that is pretty roomy and big. I am going to cover half with a cover (to retain humidity, and be the cool part). I'm using Yvonnes closed idea, also adding that I'm putting the enclosure under a wood structure (an Ikea desk that is closed on 3 out of 4 sides and on top. I'll be posting picks of the new setup soon). I'm using a clamp lamp for his basking bulb (i'm also wondering, the bulb says it contains UVA, is that a good replacement of UVB as a good UV source?).

If you can maintain the correct temperatures and humidity in an enclosure like that, then it will work fine. I tried and was not able to get satisfactory results. I sincerely hope it works for you.

UVA is not a replacement for UVB. UVB can be had from mercury vapor bulbs or long florescent tubes indoors, or from real sunshine a few times per week in a safe enclosure outside.

 

[leigti]

UVA is not a replacement for UVB. You need a UVB bulb such as a mercury vapor bulb. You can use a mercury vapor bulb for both the baby and the adults. The baby cannot have a cool and it must be warm throughout the entire enclosure 24 hours a day. You can use a CHE or a black bulb at night. The Adult can have a cool and and can go without heat at night.

 

[Rexx Doopson]

If you can maintain the correct temperatures and humidity in an enclosure like that, then it will work fine. I tried and was not able to get satisfactory results. I sincerely hope it works for you.

UVA is not a replacement for UVB. UVB can be had from mercury vapor bulbs or long florescent tubes indoors, or from real sunshine a few times per week in a safe enclosure outside.

So if i bring him out for about 30 min each day would it be ok as the hatchlings permanent UVB source? And im just wondering, what were the results? If its not a private memory, can you let me know so there are some things i can do to make sure im raising my tort right.

Ive had him for about 2 weeks, but do you think he has hatchling failure syndrome or mbd yet due to the poor conditions i put him in? Or possibly other lung or kidney failures? He shows no symptoms but maybe there are small things that previous owners might catch?

 

[Tom]

So if i bring him out for about 30 min each day would it be ok as the hatchlings permanent UVB source? And im just wondering, what were the results? If its not a private memory, can you let me know so there are some things i can do to make sure im raising my tort right.

I like to have hatchlings outside for an hour a day, 4 or 5 days a week. One or two days, is "enough" in my experience, but more works too. I think 30 minutes of access to mid day sunshine is plenty to meet their D3 needs.

The results of my attempts to use open topped enclosures were low humidity and erratic temperatures. Its just physics. With an open top, the cooler drier room air mixes with the air in your tortoise's enclosure. Then you need to add more moisture to bring humidity up. Higher humidity and more moisture means more evaporation which lowers the temperature. A lower temperature means more electric heat to raise the temperature up. More electric heat means more evaporation and dryness, so now you need to add more moisture to compensate for the increased evaporation. Etc...

By contrast, if you simply contain a relatively small amount of air (closed chamber), it is easy to heat and humidify it and keep things steady and excellent with low wattage heating elements and lights. Since your warm humid air is contained and not going anywhere, you don't have to work so hard to maintain things.

 

[Rexx Doopson]

Her's the new enclosure. (if you noticed there isn't a lamp for a CHE, the bulb and setup is on its way)

 

[Rexx Doopson]

Is this an ok bulb? it isn't a coil but it has the same tube structure, but it says its specifically or is used a lot for turtles and tortoises.