Living quarters?

[scottishscott]

Hello all, had a thought just now after looking up gardening ideas. First let me say Tom’s night houses are the bees knees. However, I’m always looking for ideas.

I was reading up on a underground greenhouse called a Wanipini. It’s said to keep great temps in winter with just the day light alone. Since Sulcata’s burrow naturally, wouldn’t this be a great natural housing for them? I not evicting Rhino anytime soon from her Tom’s abode but I was just curious what some thoughts were.

Even if not for a tortoise they are a fabulous idea for a garden to grow their treats.

 

[wellington]

Sounds like a great idea. I'll have to look that up. Sounds cool.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Interesting. I think the spelling is Walipini

https://permaculturenews.org/2016/11/28/walipini-greenhouses-diy-tips/

A Walipini is an underground greenhouse with a transparent or translucent roof. The word ‘Walipini’ means ‘place of warmth’ in the Aymara language of an indigenous Bolivian tribe.

These greenhouses work on the principle of using nature’s resources – i.e. the earth – to create a stable-temperature environment in which a cool climate area can significantly increase the variety of crops you can produce as the greenhouse, with little or no energy inputs, provides a warm space for plants to grow in.

....time to read more on this idea....

Thanks for posting

 

[Big Charlie]

Interesting idea. It doesn't look like there is the use of any additional heat source so the temperature would be close to the temperature in a burrow, which is generally the average temperature of the area. So it would depend on where you are. It would still be too cold for most of us without any additional heat.

Tom built an underground nightbox, at least once, that mimics a burrow but provides additional heat.

 

[Tom]

Tom built an underground nightbox, at least once, that mimics a burrow but provides additional heat.

That box finally rotted through after 7 years underground. Just started digging it out today.

I had to add a lot of heat. Ground temp here in winter is 50F, and the ground would just suck the heat right out of my underground tortoise box.

 

[Big Charlie]

That box finally rotted through after 7 years underground. Just started digging it out today.

I had to add a lot of heat. Ground temp here in winter is 50F, and the ground would just suck the heat right out of my underground tortoise box.

Ah, thanks for the update. So not as good an idea as it seemed at the time.

 

[Bambam1989]

That box finally rotted through after 7 years underground. Just started digging it out today.

I had to add a lot of heat. Ground temp here in winter is 50F, and the ground would just suck the heat right out of my underground tortoise box.

I would like to read this thread. Does anyone have a link?

 

[Tom]

Ah, thanks for the update. So not as good an idea as it seemed at the time.

On the contrary. It worked great. If I was still raising baby sulcatas, I'd make one again. I think its the best way to house younger ones in a hot climate. If I did it again, I'd find some sort of composite plastic material or something that would be impervious to water.

 

[Tom]

I would like to read this thread. Does anyone have a link?

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/

 

[TechnoCheese]

This sounds very interesting!

 

[Bambam1989]

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/

Hmm after reading this I can see how it ran into some problems, but I also find myself inspired to try my own version... Maybe in a few years I will give it a go when Clunker gets older.

 

[Big Charlie]

Hmm after reading this I can see how it ran into some problems, but I also find myself inspired to try my own version... Maybe in a few years I will give it a go when Clunker gets older.

I think it could be very useful in the summer. Charlie used to use his burrow in the summer to keep cool. I have been disappointed the last few years that he never dug another. I think it gave him natural humidity without me having to wet things down.

 

[scottishscott]

That's my only concern is the winter temps. Maybe lining the walls with styrofoam and then spraying shotcrete on top of that, leaving the floor natural. The shotcrete would hear things up quite toasty. Still more research to be had. I may attempt an experimental one on a small scale to test winter temps. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[Tom]

That's my only concern is the winter temps. Maybe lining the walls with styrofoam and then spraying shotcrete on top of that, leaving the floor natural. The shotcrete would hear things up quite toasty. Still more research to be had. I may attempt an experimental one on a small scale to test winter temps. I'll keep everyone posted.

I'd love to see what you discover! Bert Langerwurf used to keep many of his reptile in enclosures much like what we are talking about here. He had great success with it.

One thing I learned from the enclosure I linked above is that using an a dirt floor under a sulcata will lead to them digging and disappearing. Daisy dug a burrow so deep that I couldn't reach or see the end. She filled up the entire underground enclosure with dirt from her burrow in a matter of a couple of days. I also think shotcrete will be too abrasive for the walls.

 

[Markw84]

Hello all, had a thought just now after looking up gardening ideas. First let me say Tom’s night houses are the bees knees. However, I’m always looking for ideas.

I was reading up on a underground greenhouse called a Wanipini. It’s said to keep great temps in winter with just the day light alone. Since Sulcata’s burrow naturally, wouldn’t this be a great natural housing for them? I not evicting Rhino anytime soon from her Tom’s abode but I was just curious what some thoughts were.

Even if not for a tortoise they are a fabulous idea for a garden to grow their treats.

Where are you located? The issues you should consider are exactly what makes burrows work for tortoises in their native range, but might not work in your area. The ground temperature stays extremely stable once you get below just 18" deep. It will stay within 2°F of the average daily air temperature of that area. Once you get below 10 feet deep, the temperature will remain within a few degrees of the average YEARLY temperature of that area.

Physics and thermodynamics will greatly restrict what you choose to do with that.

The thermal mass of the earth surrounding a burrow is so great, that any heat you would try to provide will quickly be overpowered by that thermal mass. A heater would run full time as the heat produced would be quickly absorbed by the walls. Concrete, or shotcrete will be of a very similar heat transferring class as the earth. You would need considerable insulation to overcome that.

The value of what you are thinking about is that you can use the temperature of the ground very efficiently IF that temperature is the temperature you are trying to provide. Wine cellars in Northern California are a good example. A cave-type cellar will stay a perfect 55° year round - the average yearly temperature of the area. So no need for cooling systems or heating in the winter as the desired temperature they are after is 55°. If you lived in central Texas, your wine cellar would stay right at 70°. Now that is a bit warmer than desired, so not as good and option. But with added insulation - all you would need is to cool the cellar 10°-15° over the course of the year. Better than having to cool it 45° in the summer heat, and heat it 25° in the winter.

Burrows work for Sulcatas because the average yearly temperature throughout most of the Saheil is 82°-86° and an adult sulcata uses a burrow over 10 feet deep.

IF you look at the average temperatures for your area, you know what you will be working with. If you are working with a "burrow" that is about 18"-36" deep, you will work with the average DAILY temperature of your area. So in the summer, it works perfectly for @Tom In the winter it would not as the average daily temps would cause the burrow to be too cold - more in the 55°-60° range.

 

[Tom]

IF you look at the average temperatures for your area, you know what you will be working with. If you are working with a "burrow" that is about 18"-36" deep, you will work with the average DAILY temperature of your area. So in the summer, it works perfectly for @Tom In the winter it would not as the average daily temps would cause the burrow to be too cold - more in the 55°-60° range.

In summer, my daily high is almost always near 100 and my nightly low is usually around 65. Burrows stay right around 80 this time of year.

In winter daily high is usually around 60-65 and night time low around 35-40. My burrows stay right around 50 during this time of year.

The transition between the two takes about 6 weeks in late spring or late fall.

I had to use a fair amount of electricity to keep the burrow temperatures up around 80 in winter.