Mazuri

[-EJ]

Yup.

so if you feed them mazuri, your saying you dont need a uvb light?

 

[shackleton]

Yup.

so if you feed them mazuri, your saying you dont need a uvb light?

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

If herbivorous torts use UVB to synthesize vitamin D3 in order to metabolize calcium, and there is usable D3 and usable calcium present in Mazuri, then UVB becomes unnecessary.

I've read that carnivorous, and even omnivorous, herps get their D3 requirements from their meaty food/prey items, and so don't rely on UVB.

Therefore it's seems clear that UVB is just part of a process, not an end in itself. If we can get usable D3 to metabolize calcium, I'm not sure the mechanism is important.

 

[glendab63]

Robin can I ask ,your torts .are awesome the 2 large one I know the one on the right is a sulcata,but not sure about the big guy .and did you same he's only 8 years old.great job you've done with them they are beauthful

Those are actually pics of some of -EJ's tortoises, the large one is an Aldabra.

Thats what I thought but was'nt sure he is awesome.thank you so much for share the pics,they like to swim am I right ,does the large sulcata like swimming to,or can sulcata's swim,anyway he is breat taking bueathful tort,how old or long does it take an Aldabra to get that large,I've been looking for one myself,and he just make my want that much worse.so they eat pretty much like the sulcata,they are not DT are they I thought they we're a little more tropical.I have lots to learn about they before I get one but once again thanks for sharing pics of him

 

[siwash]

Would a tort be getting too much UVB id your supplemented Mazuri into the reg. diet? I just spent $50 on a UVB light bulb and I am not keen on replacing at the moment.

I am considering trying this product - once or twice per week to ensure my tort is getting enough vitamins. I Just need to find a place where it's sold in toronto...

 

[Madkins007]

I am not going to argue against EJ, just as I would not argue against TurtleTary/TurtleNERD- those that do things that work have the high ground in this discussion!

Diets drive everyone crazy- long-term keepers find something that works and go with it. Zoos argue and play games with it all the time. Pet food is a multi-billion dollar industry. Heck, we cannot even agree on the right diet for pet dogs, for crying out loud!

You can find articles all over for tortoise diets, and for every article there is someone yelling about how bad it is, even with documented evidence that the animals are healthy and doing well.

The National Zoo raises their Red-foots on: "...chopped oranges, bananas, apples, sweet potatoes, carrots, hard-boiled eggs, lettuce, kale and parsley in amounts that can be eaten by the six animals in 20 minutes. They are led every Monday and Thursday. The ‘salad’ is supplemented with powdered Pervinal and bone meal, and on Thursday feline diet is added. " (Sam Davis, “Husbandry and breeding of the Red-footed tortoise, Geochelone carbonaria, at the National Zoological Park, Washington.” International Zoo Yearbook, 19: 50-53. 1979) Of the 12 diet items mentioned, nine are listed in many articles as not good for Red-foots- yet the zoo goes on to hatch out babies at an impressive rate.

All this said- I don't plan on doing Mazuri anytime real soon. I am just not a fan of fake foods, for torts or humans. I know that a lot of reseach says 'nutrients are nutrients' whether natural or chemical, but the more I study diabetes, the Paleo-diet, etc., the less I am sure of this.

 

[-EJ]

You really need to lay off the... scotch... dope... whatever.

There are people who are passionate about keeping tortoises. They do have some unique ideas...

I don't see the idea of this post at all.

If you ever come up with some useful information as to any diet... I'm listening.

I am not going to argue against EJ, just as I would not argue against TurtleTary/TurtleNERD- those that do things that work have the high ground in this discussion!

Diets drive everyone crazy- long-term keepers find something that works and go with it. Zoos argue and play games with it all the time. Pet food is a multi-billion dollar industry. Heck, we cannot even agree on the right diet for pet dogs, for crying out loud!

You can find articles all over for tortoise diets, and for every article there is someone yelling about how bad it is, even with documented evidence that the animals are healthy and doing well.

The National Zoo raises their Red-foots on: "...chopped oranges, bananas, apples, sweet potatoes, carrots, hard-boiled eggs, lettuce, kale and parsley in amounts that can be eaten by the six animals in 20 minutes. They are led every Monday and Thursday. The ‘salad’ is supplemented with powdered Pervinal and bone meal, and on Thursday feline diet is added. " (Sam Davis, “Husbandry and breeding of the Red-footed tortoise, Geochelone carbonaria, at the National Zoological Park, Washington.” International Zoo Yearbook, 19: 50-53. 1979) Of the 12 diet items mentioned, nine are listed in many articles as not good for Red-foots- yet the zoo goes on to hatch out babies at an impressive rate.

All this said- I don't plan on doing Mazuri anytime real soon. I am just not a fan of fake foods, for torts or humans. I know that a lot of reseach says 'nutrients are nutrients' whether natural or chemical, but the more I study diabetes, the Paleo-diet, etc., the less I am sure of this.

 

[Madkins007]

Dang. I thought I was making a point. Let me try again.

There is no such thing as 'the perfect tortoise diet'. Heck, there is no such thing as 'the perfect human diet' or 'pet dog diet'- and we have spent more time and money trying to find those.

Ed has success with Mazuri. TurtleNERD has success with his specific diet plan for Red-foots. The Washington Zoo has a plan, Richard Cary Paull has a plan, everyone who has ever published a site or book has a plan...

...And most of these plans work! It is often easy to find BIG problems with many of the plans- too much sugar, too much grain, too costly, too time consuming, etc. But the plans work anyway- the animals are growing and reproducing- the standards of the success of any feeding and husbandry plan.

I think we forget a couple of key points in this discussion...

1. Tortoises only need a few calories a day. (The formula, if you are interested, is 'body weight in kilos to the 0.75th power, times 32, equals daily caloric need.) Most of our diets offer more than they need. (ref: Dr. Douglas Mader, Reptile Medicine and Surgery)

2. Wild tortoises take in a lot of bulk and fairly low amounts of most nutrients in a day, and make up for it by digesting them slowly- about 20 times slower than a mammal would! Red-foots take about 3 days to digest fruit and 9 to digest vegetation. (Ref: "Flexibility of digestive responses in two generalist herbivores, the tortoises Geochelone carbonaria and Geochelone denticulate", Bjorndahl, and his section in the book "Gastrointestinal Ecosystems and Fermentations")

So- if you take a slow-digesting animal that usually eats fairly low nutrient foods and offer it a diet that follows a few basic guidelines (not too much sugar or fat, good calcium/phosphorus ratio, right roughage for the species, etc.), you should be OK. In a week's passage time, it should be able to suck nutrients out of almost anything!

 

[-EJ]

makes no difference to me what a keeper does. I've found a method after 30+ years of searching... that works. I share the results. It's up to the keeper what method they choose.

Dang. I thought I was making a point. Let me try again.

There is no such thing as 'the perfect tortoise diet'. Heck, there is no such thing as 'the perfect human diet' or 'pet dog diet'- and we have spent more time and money trying to find those.

Ed has success with Mazuri. TurtleNERD has success with his specific diet plan for Red-foots. The Washington Zoo has a plan, Richard Cary Paull has a plan, everyone who has ever published a site or book has a plan...

...And most of these plans work! It is often easy to find BIG problems with many of the plans- too much sugar, too much grain, too costly, too time consuming, etc. But the plans work anyway- the animals are growing and reproducing- the standards of the success of any feeding and husbandry plan.

I think we forget a couple of key points in this discussion...

1. Tortoises only need a few calories a day. (The formula, if you are interested, is 'body weight in kilos to the 0.75th power, times 32, equals daily caloric need.) Most of our diets offer more than they need. (ref: Dr. Douglas Mader, Reptile Medicine and Surgery)

2. Wild tortoises take in a lot of bulk and fairly low amounts of most nutrients in a day, and make up for it by digesting them slowly- about 20 times slower than a mammal would! Red-foots take about 3 days to digest fruit and 9 to digest vegetation. (Ref: "Flexibility of digestive responses in two generalist herbivores, the tortoises Geochelone carbonaria and Geochelone denticulate", Bjorndahl, and his section in the book "Gastrointestinal Ecosystems and Fermentations")

So- if you take a slow-digesting animal that usually eats fairly low nutrient foods and offer it a diet that follows a few basic guidelines (not too much sugar or fat, good calcium/phosphorus ratio, right roughage for the species, etc.), you should be OK. In a week's passage time, it should be able to suck nutrients out of almost anything!

 

[Yvonne G]

1. Tortoises only need a few calories a day (ref: Dr. Douglas Mader, Reptile Medicine and Surgery)
2. Wild tortoises take in a lot of bulk and fairly low amounts of most nutrients in a day, (Ref: "Flexibility of digestive responses in two generalist herbivores, the tortoises Geochelone carbonaria and Geochelone denticulate", Bjorndahl, and his section in the book "Gastrointestinal Ecosystems and Fermentations")

Thank you for including references. It is an interesting discussion.

Yvonne

 

[siwash]

Mazuri is not practical for most tort owners who own only one or two animals (probably many if not most here).

I have a hatchling hermann's - he's so small.. it would take 3 years to consume a 25lb of mazuri and only if I fed him daily amounts! I called around here in toronto, and I can only locate one store that carries the stuff... in 25lb bags!

I don't have a freezer big enough to store it either as it is filled with human food and that's not going to change

Has this co. considered making product sizes for the mass market? It's basically geared toward all you breeders...

 

[Madkins007]

Mazuri is also available in 1, 5, and 9lb bags from many sources, like http://www.turtlestuff.com/shop/?cart=439872&cat=28&

 

[siwash]

"NO SALES OUTSIDE OF USA"

I'm in Canada!

BTW, does anyone know of an Atlanta-area tort/reptile retailer? My sister lives down there and I will be going down to Georgia soon! I can pick up some stuff while I'm there... Hopefully some smaller quantities of Mazuri!

Thanks!

 

[Madkins007]

Ah, you crazy Canadians! If you cannot find another source, you can try a feed and grain store that carries Purina stuff- they can probably special order the Mazuri from them. (Mazuri is a Purina company).

---

By the way, here is a list of Mazuri dealers in Canada from Mazuri's site: https://www.mazuri.com/Home.asp?Products=2&Opening=7[hr]
OK, so the link does not go right to the dealers site- in the upper edge, click on Dealer Locator and you can find them easily enough!

If you ask them nicely, they can probably order in small quantities, and a lot of feed and grains would be willing to consider breaking open a bag and selling it by the pound- at least the ones near me will for some products.

 

[Cam]

. My Pomeranian, he has found he LOVES it. He thinks it is the best thing he has ever tired and when I take it outside to feed to the DT he will dance all over the yard trying to get me to give him some.

LOL!! Yesterday I brought home a 50lb bag of Trout Chow (Aqua Max) and I sat in my recliner chair with the bag on one side and some plastic sandwich bags on the other. I bagged it up into the smaller bags while I watched TV, then put it into the freezer. Trouble was, my finicky cat, who only licks the juice off the canned cat food and will only eat a certain brand of dry cat food, wouldn't leave me alone! She LOVES that stuff!! (As an aside to this story: You just can't wash that fishy smell off of you! It must grab onto the nose hairs and stick there. I'm still smelling it this a.m.! I tried to have an ice cream snack last night, and the fishy smell just turned my stomach...couldn't eat the ice cream! H-m-m-m- m! A new diet plan??????)

Yvonne

Too funny

For the fishy smell...slice a lemon in half and rub it on your hands then sprinkle baking soda over them and rub it all in and rinse...It should cut the smell. FYI, if you have any cuts though it will burn.

 

[JourneyTort]

Hey Siwash you could probably get Rens Pet Food in Oakville to order it for you if they don't stock it. They are pretty reasonable.

JourneyTort

 

[siwash]

Hey Siwash you could probably get Rens Pet Food in Oakville to order it for you if they don't stock it. They are pretty reasonable.

JourneyTort

Thanks! I'll try it...

 

[fel1958]

How do you get your torts to eat Mazuri food? My torts avoid pellets and only eat veggies.

hello.soak the mazri for 60 seconds.lay some fresh greens over top of it.the torts have to get right in it to notice it.it took mine about a week.now they love it.allso if you have touble getting it we sell it fresh from mazuri.it does not last long here.we are allways geting a new shipment......thanx,,,,,frank

 

[nrfitchett4]

have you tried ebay? That's where I bought mine, 2lb bag it was about $12 with shipping. expensive compared to the 25lb bag, but I don't need that much. So far Shelly won't eat it anyways.

 

[Madkins007]

OK, EJ sold me, so I got some. I crunched up some and fed the finer stuff to my two littlest, and the broken pellets to my three bigger Red-foots. On the day I started feeding, I did not have anything else on hand so just put the stuff in there with some misting- and all 5 ate it.

Since then, I have fed about 1/4th Mazuri, and 3/4ths other stuff. Once a week I crunch up 1/2 of a human multi-vitamin mineral tablet to boost the low vitamin A of Mazuri, reinforce D3, and offer a boost of calcium.

They drink more water with this, or possibly because it is winter and harder to keep humid, and some days they eat a good amount of the Mazuri, some days they don't eat much of it.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I'm going away for the weekend and planning to leave out some Mazuri for the hatchling russian tort. Today I soaked some pellets in warm water and mushed them up with a spoon really well, then drained the water. It made a nice little paste of Mazuri. Put it in the fridge in a container so I can put it out tomorrow when we leave.

We don't have any bug problems or else I wouldn't do this. I'm hopeful this will work well for the little guy (he can't manage the chunks and even when it dries up the Mazuri paste will be particles of a manageable size). We're gone less than 48 hours and this is our first time leaving him. Haven't had any issues with him flipping over or other worries so far to prohibit it.