moaning tort

[Shannonlee]

Hi! Need help please. My sweet Sulcata boy is having an issue..
Wednesday morning I cleaned up a ginormous tort "pile" but Wednesday afternoon I find him moaning every so often. From experience this typically means he has to poop, so I soak him for almost an hour with no product! He is straining so hard and moaning, but no luck. Friday he isn't straining but is still occasionally moaning so I soak him for another 40 min. Same saturday- except over an hour soak..still nothing. It is Sunday and I still hear him moaning. no straining though.
Is there anything I can do to help him poop? Can i soak him in epsom salts to really loosen the chutes?
Any help would be appreciated...Thanks in advance

 

[wellington]

Soak him in a big container like a tub so he can move around a lot, keep him moving
You can also try taking him for a care rude, they almost always poop on a car ride.
We need to know how he is housed, temps, light, heat, diet, substrate, everything due to his care, so we can find out why this happened and so it doesn't again.

 

[TammyJ]

Are you keeping the soak water warm?

 

[TammyJ]

How big is he? What size enclosure?

 

[Shannonlee]

He just has started going out for the spring -he has been asleep under a chair with a heat lamp inside for the winter.
He was eating a mix.if clover and turtle blend of grasses and some nice fresh cabbage and pepper..he is appx 20 lbs (i say more but my honey days it is so)
When it stays warm he has free reign of the back yard..

 

[Tom]

He just has started going out for the spring -he has been asleep under a chair with a heat lamp inside for the winter.
He was eating a mix.if clover and turtle blend of grasses and some nice fresh cabbage and pepper..he is appx 20 lbs (i say more but my honey days it is so)
When it stays warm he has free reign of the back yard..

Its spring time. Is he lifting the back end of his shell and everting anything back there when he makes this noise?

Also, your tortoise is too big for heat lamps now. They are not effective at warming a larger tortoise and can also damage the carapace at that size.

This species does not "sleep" for the winter. They should remain active and eating all year long. On the floor in the house is not a suitable way for them to live. Inactivity due to cold temps and improper housing is what typically causes the issue you are having. Time to re-think your housing strategy. You need a heated night box for a shelter/warming area, and a large heated space, like a large shed or a basement, for winter. Living under a chair with a heat lamp is not suitable, sufficient, or safe.

Here are two night box examples:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Double Door Night Box

As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions are welcome.

 

[Maggie3fan]

When he last pooped was there urates involved? Has he ever just laid a pile of urates?

 

[Yvonne G]

Take a look under him while he's moaning to see if his penis is out - that's what Tom means by 'everting.'

 

[Shannonlee]

Its spring time. Is he lifting the back end of his shell and everting anything back there when he makes this noise?

Also, your tortoise is too big for heat lamps now. They are not effective at warming a larger tortoise and can also damage the carapace at that size.

This species does not "sleep" for the winter. They should remain active and eating all year long. On the floor in the house is not a suitable way for them to live. Inactivity due to cold temps and improper housing is what typically causes the issue you are having. Time to re-think your housing strategy. You need a heated night box for a shelter/warming area, and a large heated space, like a large shed or a basement, for winter. Living under a chair with a heat lamp is not suitable, sufficient, or safe.

Here are two night box examples:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Double Door Night Box

As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions are welcome.

Wow! Thanks so much for this!
Is it possible that you could send me a list of the required electronics? I got an error when I tried to open the link..
I am not as bad of a tort mom as I sound. He only sleeps under the chair - he has fiull run of the house and eats daily. Plus he gets outside quite a few days because I am in southern Utah. Any day above 50 deg he got to romp. The heat lamp is actually hanging inside a huge box - not just over the top of him - so he gets warmed from all sides. He pretty much goes where he wants when he wants. I have had him 4 yrs and this is the first time anything weird has happened. He has his own huge Mulberry Tree that normally the leaves are a huge part of his diet along with a garden I planted specifically for him with all his ok-d plants (which oddly he ignores until I plant portulaca)..
My honey has promised me a tort house for the last 3 yrs a d hasnt come through. Looks like I may be builing it myself!

 

[Shannonlee]

When he last pooped was there urates involved? Has he ever just laid a pile of urates?

Tons! It is so weird that the urates freak me out but not the poop...He has stopped straining but still moans here and there. He is headed to the tort doc in the morning!
Thank you for helping me! I love my little man and would be heartbroken if anything happened to him.

 

[Shannonlee]

Soak him in a big container like a tub so he can move around a lot, keep him moving
You can also try taking him for a care rude, they almost always poop on a car ride.
We need to know how he is housed, temps, light, heat, diet, substrate, everything due to his care, so we can find out why this happened and so it doesn't again.

Franklin has been soaked everynight in the tub..he still can move around. This summer we are making him his own hot tub since he is for sure out-growing that tub! Did I answer everything else? Backyard has dirt and this spring will be throwinh down clover.
Thank you for your help!!

 

[Shannonlee]

Are you keeping the soak water warm?

Yes. always warm. Keep refreshing the whole time.

 

[Shannonlee]

How big is he? What size enclosure?

appx 20 lbs..way bigger than my lap!! been holding him and he is getting HUGE!
Backyard is appx 25'x60' plus and is dirt with bamboo along the sides (he does not eat) a small tort garden and a shed (and his duck brothers' house)

 

[wellington]

Wow! Thanks so much for this!
Is it possible that you could send me a list of the required electronics? I got an error when I tried to open the link..
I am not as bad of a tort mom as I sound. He only sleeps under the chair - he has fiull run of the house and eats daily. Plus he gets outside quite a few days because I am in southern Utah. Any day above 50 deg he got to romp. The heat lamp is actually hanging inside a huge box - not just over the top of him - so he gets warmed from all sides. He pretty much goes where he wants when he wants. I have had him 4 yrs and this is the first time anything weird has happened. He has his own huge Mulberry Tree that normally the leaves are a huge part of his diet along with a garden I planted specifically for him with all his ok-d plants (which oddly he ignores until I plant portulaca)..
My honey has promised me a tort house for the last 3 yrs a d hasnt come through. Looks like I may be builing it myself!

As Tom said, he needs a shed, basement, or a dedicated room for winter housing. Walking around your house is not warm enough. He needs to be in 80 temps. You won't have that on the floor of your house unless you cook the heater upto 100 at least. Yes, your honey needs to build that shed now.

 

[Tom]

Wow! Thanks so much for this!
Is it possible that you could send me a list of the required electronics? I got an error when I tried to open the link..
I am not as bad of a tort mom as I sound. He only sleeps under the chair - he has fiull run of the house and eats daily. Plus he gets outside quite a few days because I am in southern Utah. Any day above 50 deg he got to romp. The heat lamp is actually hanging inside a huge box - not just over the top of him - so he gets warmed from all sides. He pretty much goes where he wants when he wants. I have had him 4 yrs and this is the first time anything weird has happened. He has his own huge Mulberry Tree that normally the leaves are a huge part of his diet along with a garden I planted specifically for him with all his ok-d plants (which oddly he ignores until I plant portulaca)..
My honey has promised me a tort house for the last 3 yrs a d hasnt come through. Looks like I may be builing it myself!

Nobody thinks you are a bad tort mom. You are just making some commonly seen errors and we want to help you avoid disaster.

Your tortoise's diet sound pretty good. Try to add more grass to it. Grass should be a large percentage of the diet of a sulcata. Mulberry leaves are great too. How about some spineless opuntia pads?

Loose in the house is a disaster waiting to happen. We see several cases of this here every year, and I hear even more cases from vet friends. They send me x ray pics of things people's tortoises have ingested while running loose in the house or yard. We've seen heads smashed in doors, escapes form doors left open, broken legs from accidentally being stepped on or kicked, chemical poisoning... the list is endless. Your tortoise needs to be in its own enclosure and a giant tortoise needs a giant enclosure. Lack of movement can cause the build up of urates that you are seeing, and that can lead to bladder stone formation which can kill them.

You need either a radiant heat panel and Kane mat combo, or you need a mini radiant oil heater from Walmart. Either option needs to be in a well built insulated box, and controlled by a thermostat. Heat lamps are fine for smaller tortoises, but they don't work for larger tortoises, and usually end up "slow-burning" and damaging the carapace.

 

[TammyJ]

Tons! It is so weird that the urates freak me out but not the poop...He has stopped straining but still moans here and there. He is headed to the tort doc in the morning!
Thank you for helping me! I love my little man and would be heartbroken if anything happened to him.

What you should know if you don't already is that most vets know little or nothing about tortoise care. Some of them will cover their ignorance by pretending to know, injecting your tortoise with Vitamins or whatever, and prescribing some harsh and harmful stuff and treatment. I hope you have a real good and experienced tortoise vet if you are taking him to "the tort doc". Also, can you post a few pictures of the tortoise? Thanks!