My leopard tort looks different

[Yvonne G]

Well, when you take away the color, it certainly does look like the three little Texas tortoises I have here now. (But what an unusual color - quite a special tortoise for sure) Thanks, Baoh, for your input. I was hoping you would see the picture and settle the leopocata question.

 

[Baoh]

Thanks for your reply Baoh

I don't have a picture but looked like this one

Without the photo of the original, I would be remiss to weigh in on the original because that could lead to the sort of assumptions that took us down the leopard roads and hybrid roads. Even though you think it looked like the example photo, it would be irresponsible of me.

 

[Baoh]

Maybe you're an expert and I'm not
But I'm not sure is a berlandieri, cause I had one in the past and doesn't look any closer to the one I have right now
Here are pics of the one I had before
Or maybe was not a berlandieri?
As I said, I'm not an expert

View attachment 137961 View attachment 137962 View attachment 137963

Both this animal and the new/returned one are berlandieri. Look at the gular scutes, forearm scale arrangements, overall scales of the face, and -a big one if you can distract your mind from the especially variegated new growth- the original carapace scute areas the animal hatched out with. If you look at the original scute centers of the new animal, they match up well with the original scute centers of the other berlandieri you had before. That variegation is simply much higher in the current individual you possess. The mental trick to assist with this is to focus your mind to ignore the color of the new growth and look at the original color along with the overall structure of the animal's various parts. I have observed variegation variation in quite a few species, this one included. Just as you can experience all black carapaces or extremely variegated carapaces in carbonaria, so can you experience similar phenomena in denticulata (on infrequent occasions), the various Gopherus species (on infrequent occasion), and even sometimes in the sulcata species. Leopards, cherryhead redfoots, the two star species, the Astrochelys species, and some Kinixys species like erosa just show this so much more frequently that we come to associate it more closely in our minds with them by default. You can sometimes find this in young CB nigra, too, and I have even seen some emys phayrei exhibit this (although far, far less commonly).

I think you are very fortunate to be able to keep and provide for such an outstanding berlandieri specimen.

 

[Yvonne G]

I have three Berlandieri at the moment, and thought a comparison picture or two might be helpful. One must look at Memo's pictures and my pictures, taking away the color and just look at the shape, gular, legs etc. I think you'll see they look very similar. (Sorry, but I'm not a good picture taker):

 

[Baoh]

Yes. That shot of the gular region (actually, the entire plastron in terms of the geometry and the scute margins and shapes) assists greatly.

For any observers, look at the plastron of the recently returned animal memo1987 posted and the plastron that Yvonne posted. It may help you visualize it if you open them in separate windows and place them side by side if you cannot hold images in your mind like my own tendency. Ignore the variegation and focus on the shape and you will see excellent shape-based agreement between the animals to further cement the points made.

 

[Heardofturtles]

Yes. That shot of the gular region (actually, the entire plastron in terms of the geometry and the scute margins and shapes) assists greatly.

For any observers, look at the plastron of the recently returned animal memo1987 posted and the plastron that Yvonne posted. It may help you visualize it if you open them in separate windows and place them side by side if you cannot hold images in your mind like my own tendency. Ignore the variegation and focus on the shape and you will see excellent shape-based agreement between the animals to further cement the points made.

Great information. I have nothing to do with this thread but appreciate the taxonomy that is brought to bear. There is a different thread regarding the issue of P. Pardalis/P. Babcocki. If you have any insight on the subject, I would love to hear it.

 

[memo1987]

What a great information, thanks Boah!
I was super intrigued about what you said
So, I started to search in my last mobile (it's broked) pictures of the tortoise when I bought it
And guess what? I found 3 pics, but, unfortunately one is blurred, one u can just see the middle of it, and the other doesn't work fine ¬.¬

The first pic doesn't work, but I can see the picture in little size I don't know why (is the second uploaded pic), also you can see the date there 07/03/14 when I bought it, it was still in the box

Then in the third pic you can see just a half of it, but you can see the tortoise

And finally there's a fourth pic, but is kinda blurred

I hope this can help a little more to identify it

Greetings!

 

[memo1987]

Hey! I found 4 more pics!
The last pic is from april 2014

 

[Yvonne G]

LOL!! I'm afraid your vet pulled a fast one on you. Those pictures are of a leopard tortoise!

 

[Yvonne G]

But far as I'm concerned, your Texas tortoise is way more "valuable" than the leopard tortoise. The leopard is just another leopard, but the Texas is quite special. I hope he keeps his beautiful and different shell color as he grows.

 

[memo1987]

LOL!! I'm afraid your vet pulled a fast one on you. Those pictures are of a leopard tortoise!

He just told me yesterday that was the same and he didn't gave me another tortoise..
Now I don't know what to believe lol

But far as I'm concerned, your Texas tortoise is way more "valuable" than the leopard tortoise. The leopard is just another leopard, but the Texas is quite special. I hope he keeps his beautiful and different shell color as he grows.

Thanks for your reply
So, I guess I'll have to wait a few months and see how it grows
I will post pictures in the next months

 

[Yvonne G]

He's lying to you. You can see it yourself in the first picture of the second post where you can see the baby's head clearly. Notice the two egg-shaped scales on top of his head just behind his nose. Now look at the baby in your possession. This baby does NOT have those two scales. Things like this do not change. Leopard tortoises keep those two scales their whole life. Now look at the first picture of the baby sitting on his green house. It's hard to see, but that baby has hardly any gular protrusions (the gular is the shell right below the head extending out from the bottom shell). But the baby you have now has a very distinctive gular area.

I think the vet did you a big favor. The tortoise he gave you is quite special.

 

[memo1987]

You're probable right
Maybe my leopard died and he replace it with this new little awesome guy

Thanks for all your comments

I will definately post more pics of my tort in the next months

I still want a leopard, maybe I'll get one soon and I will let you know!

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Yes...you had a switched tortoise! I'm positive your first was a leopard tortoise.

I don't know anything about Texas tortoises but if Baoh and Yvonne think that one is special, I'd believe them!

 

[memo1987]

Thanks team gomberg!

Guys maybe this topic is not related but I found this pee of my tortoise
Is good or bad?
Is calcium in the pee
I'm giving calcium everyday
That's wrong?
How often should I put calcium in the food?
I need to suspend it for a while?

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Those are urates. It's normal for them but it should be more of a liquid, that looks dry and crumbly. Dry means he needs to be better hydrated.
Once you ditch the carpet and use a damp "earthy/dirt" substrate, it'll help. Add some occasional soaks and it'll help even more.

 

[Baoh]

With the new (old) photos, memo1987, I am with Yvonne regarding the substitution your vet made. You delivered a leopard tortoises and you received a very nice berlandieri. I would guess he was trying to spare your feelings despite the non-truth involved and that your leopard tortoise's life faded out during its stay. Great luck with the new animal. It is special.

 

[memo1987]

Thanks to both guys
I found this video
It looks pretty similar to mine

 

[memo1987]

And by the way, I changed the carpet
Hope my tort like it!

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

@Baoh good to see your face here again. @memo1987 if no other good thing came from the rather strange story of your vet, and your tortoise, you got Baoh to play nice on TFO. Critical thinkers such as he often get confused for being athols (a lisp-y way to say a different word). Though not mutually exclusive character traits we got the good critical thinker out of a valued participant.

My own hopeful thinking was that you had a bolsons, they too are a gopherus, from Mexico, and IMO that would have been even more cool than an aberrant Texas tortoise. In at least one of your images the chin glands are apparent enough for me to determine it's a gopherus.

Good luck with your tortoise, they are all great pets.