my new tort - louis (armstrong) - advice welcomed

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marcy4hope

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i just acquired my first tortoise. i helped my son (when he was young) raise some red eared sliders, but this is my first tortoise. i'm excited to own him, but will certainly confess that i hadn't done enough research before buying him. but, i'm up for raising him as he grows. my husband will help me build houses and enclosures for him as he grows. we love animals and used to have horses, donkeys, turkeys, geese, peacocks, dogs, cats, a bearded dragon, red eared sliders, rabbits, chickens, etc., etc. we moved overseas for the past 4 years, but are back in the states now. i miss all of our animals, and love turtles, so i wanted a turtle to raise.

i'm still working on getting louis' first home all set up, it's coming along each day little by little.

the store i got my tort from just had him on that white calcium substrate that looks like sand. so, to keep things like he was used to, i went ahead and got some for now. i plan to gradually change him over to something different. i had some bedding that was made for reptiles that reminds me of cedar chips (although they aren't). i didn't have the original bag so don't know the name of it, but i soaked some it and put it in the corner of his "home" and he really likes it. i am reading through the forum and seeing many things i'm starting to implement in his housing.

one thing i noticed when i bought him is that the humidity level probably wasn't very high in his cage at the store, although the pet store was very humid to begin with, as they have a huge open fish "pond" in the store with 3 small sharks in it. so, my biggest project now is trying to get the humidity level up in his home.

the worker in the store told me that we didn't need a uvb light at all, and he only needed the "sand" and to be fed red leaf lettuce and carrots. in my research on the internet, i see that he needs a lot more than that. after raising a bearded dragon (who died last year of old age - we'd had since he was a baby), i immediately came home and ordered a uvb light for my tort, even though the shop worker told me i didn't need one.

i was also told that the store had the tort for at least 5 months. i was told that the tort was probably a little small for his age and breed.

i am also reading up on pyramiding and am concerned that i get enough humidity in his habitat to prevent that. i think his shell looks good right now, what do you think? and when can i get to the point where it's not so necessary to be concerned about pyramiding?

i open to any suggestions to help me out with my new tort.
 

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ascott

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Welcome :D did the pet store tell you what species of tortoise you have there? :D

I would not use the sand...especially since your tort is so young....ingesting the sand along with potentially dehydration just is an unnecessary risk....this is just what I feel ....and happy to hear you are going to set up uvb....:D:D
 

BrinnANDTorts

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Hello and WELCOME!!! :)
Beautiful little sullie you got there
Here are a whole bunch of links that tell you the proper way to take care of your baby , of course everyone has different opinions to whats proper but I use these links and mine are very healthy and smooth growing

These are really good care sheets
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1jDx65Kjy
That one is specifically for Baby Sulcata
This one is for leopards and its really good for for Sulcatas too
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Leopard-Tortoise-Care-Sheet#axzz1jDx65Kjy

This one is about hatchling failure syndrome (how to notice the signs before its too late and how to prevent or fix it )
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Hatchling-Failure-Syndrome#axzz1jDx65Kjy

This thread is about the best kind of enclosure to keep your sulcata in
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Closed-Chambers#axzz1jDxMmN6K

Lastly we have threads about pyramiding that show the wonderful smooth growth and healthy tortoises that using these care sheets produce
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-The-End-Of-Pyramiding#axzz1jDxMmN6K
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-The-End-Of-Pyramiding-II-The-Leopards#axzz1jDxMmN6K

I hope these help and of course if you have any questions you can post them on the Sulcata part of the forum and you will get tons of answers :)
Good luck with your baby I can't wait to see more pictures

To answer all of your questions in my opinion
I wouldn't buy anything until you read those links and see what you really need because I didn't read those first and ended up wasting a ton of money on things I really didn't need.
Also may I just say that are very very smart for not listening to the pest shop man because he was completely wrong..
Your tortoise does in fact need UVB , very very much he needs UVB to prevent Metabolic Bone Disease that will kill him if he gets it and it goes untreated.
UVB gives tortoises Vitamin D3 which they need to metabolize their calcium and build strong bones and shells. Of course the best UVB is all natural sunlight if the weather where you live always you to do that this time of year but if not summer will eventually roll around :)
Calcium supplementation is also important
A mercury vapor bulb is the best thing you can get him
Next are the LONG fluorescent tubes that emit UVB and no heat (Reptisun 10.0 for example) these have been found to be not very reliable by many people I have talked to on the forum
What you should never use though is a COMPACT FLUORESCENT BULB , they have been known to cause blindness in tortoises on many occasions.
They have COMPACT versions of the Reptisun 10.0 and you should not use them or any bulb that says its a compact fluorescent.
The links will tell you what you need to change your substrate too and that you need to soak him everyday and mist him often throughout the day to prevent pyramiding.
Also supplementation of calcium is really important
Also I wouldn't worry too much about pyramiding with your tortoise because he has barely had any growth from what I can see in the pictures you posted so as long as you follow the care sheets all his new growth will be smooth
And yes he is very small for a 5 month old Sulcata, idk how he hasn't seem to have any growth lines for being 5 months old. I wouldn't worry too much about it because it sounds like they were keeping him way wrong at the pet shop and that could be way. Under your care he should grow like a weed
I think the point where you can be less vigilant on humidity and soakings and mistings to prevent pyramiding is about four or five years old from what I have heard because they will be around a foot long and need to start living outside year around.

ascott said:
Welcome :D did the pet store tell you what species of tortoise you have there? :D

I would not use the sand...especially since your tort is so young....ingesting the sand along with potentially dehydration just is an unnecessary risk....this is just what I feel ....and happy to hear you are going to set up uvb....:D:D

I completely agree that you need to get rid of the sand and use whats recommended in the care sheets.
The care sheet will tell you all about humidity and the enclosure link I posted for you will tell you about the best kind of enclosure to build him to get the highest humidity levels. All my tortoise live in a closed chamber enclosure.
 

marcy4hope

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BrinnANDGupta said:
Hello and WELCOME!!! :)
Beautiful little sullie you got there...
ascott said:
thanks for all of the links and advice. i have been avidly reading all the info i can on this site and others. am starting to add several things i see that will work for me with my sullie.

i did order some of those coco coir blocks, and have a plastic tub (shoe box size) that my husband cut out a hole in for him to go in. i am waiting on the coco coir to arrive. i will get new substrate the next time i'm at a pet store (probably saturday) since i don't want to pay the big shipping cost. i did already order some calcium/d3 supplement to add to his feed too.

i live in rural missouri. so, most stuff i buy my sullie has to be done online. i'm over an hour from st. louis. it's cold here in the winter, so have to really try and keep my sullie warm.

i do have one specific question. i've noticed that my sullie stays in his "nest" a lot. it's one of those split logs (looks like a tunnel). i noticed in the pet store that he stayed in his little rock hide spot a lot too. i have the heat light at one end of the cage and he stays away from it. it's only a 60 watt bulb, so i'm having a hard time believing it's too warm for him. thermometer says his cage is only 72 degrees in the middle of the cage. just wondering if it's not warm enough for him in the cage for him to be more active. if i go get him and wake him up good, then he gets really active, but not for more than about 5-10 minutes and then he goes right back in his nest. too warm ... too cold??
 

ripper7777777

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That is the first time I've heard a pet store not recommend a UVB bulb, it's an up sale. The very dry conditions is normal to see in a pet store, wrong, but it's how people think they live.

I'd recommend moderate to high humidity, 60% and higher with a high humidity hide. But before you up the humidity get control of the heat. I use a uvb florescent tube and a infrared heat lamp with a dimmer. I also prefer aquariums for the little guys, I use 40 gallon breeder tanks, it makes it easy to control temps and humidity. I like to keep the tank between 75 and 80, 80 always on the warm side at night and higher in the days. I'm told they can survive down to 50, but Peanut never leaves the warm side at night, so they may survive it, but Peanut seems to like the warmth better. During the day He is very active, but the warm side is in the 90's and the ambient temp 80's.

Tubs will work just fine, but you may have to cover them.


Once you get it nice and warm in there you can start raising the humidity, I recommend reading all of Tom's care sheet, good info.


I'm not sure where your ordering from, but Amazon carries a lot of stuff and has free shipping on a lot of stuff.
 

BrinnANDTorts

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marcy4hope said:
BrinnANDGupta said:
Hello and WELCOME!!! :)
Beautiful little sullie you got there...
ascott said:
thanks for all of the links and advice. i have been avidly reading all the info i can on this site and others. am starting to add several things i see that will work for me with my sullie.

i did order some of those coco coir blocks, and have a plastic tub (shoe box size) that my husband cut out a hole in for him to go in. i am waiting on the coco coir to arrive. i will get new substrate the next time i'm at a pet store (probably saturday) since i don't want to pay the big shipping cost. i did already order some calcium/d3 supplement to add to his feed too.

i live in rural missouri. so, most stuff i buy my sullie has to be done online. i'm over an hour from st. louis. it's cold here in the winter, so have to really try and keep my sullie warm.

i do have one specific question. i've noticed that my sullie stays in his "nest" a lot. it's one of those split logs (looks like a tunnel). i noticed in the pet store that he stayed in his little rock hide spot a lot too. i have the heat light at one end of the cage and he stays away from it. it's only a 60 watt bulb, so i'm having a hard time believing it's too warm for him. thermometer says his cage is only 72 degrees in the middle of the cage. just wondering if it's not warm enough for him in the cage for him to be more active. if i go get him and wake him up good, then he gets really active, but not for more than about 5-10 minutes and then he goes right back in his nest. too warm ... too cold??

Yes yes its much too cold in my opinion , your little sullie needs temps all over his enclosure to be 80 degrees minimum, thats critical because him being too cold will cause him to be inactive (which you are already describing that he is ) which can lead to more serious problems like dehydration.
The best way to know all temps in your enclosure is to get a Temp Gun I liked that word to Amazon where I bought my temp gun and it works great for only 17 dollars. With it you can take the temp any where in the enclosure. You need four temps. Right under the basking area (which should be a Mercury Vapor Bulb) needs to be around 100 degrees I would say no more than 105F . Then the warm side next to the light will probably be in the 90s and the cool side should be in the 80s, not lower than 80 though. Nighttime temps should be in the 80s but of course not lower than 80.
If you go lower than 80F your risking him getting sick and too cold.
Once you get the temp up to 80F and more in the cage and then the humidity up to 80% and do his mistings and soaks you will see him become very very active and eat a ton.


ripper7777777 said:
I'm not sure where your ordering from, but Amazon carries a lot of stuff and has free shipping on a lot of stuff.

Yes amazon rules


 

Jacob

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Welcome, Your Sulcata is Not 3 Months Old , Its Simply a Hatching Baby!
You Can Use Either Cyrpess Mulch or Coconut Fiber, Substract To Keep In Humidity
 

marcy4hope

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thanks for all of the advice. today, i went and got some coconut fiber for new substrate and totally re worked his habitat. he seems to like it and has already started digging around in it. i also got a stronger heat bulb to warm the cage up more and am watching the temp in it to get it higher and the humidity up. pictures of that coming soon. i did measure him this morning, so will attach that photo. was surprised when someone mentioned that he looked maybe not even 3 months old. asked my husband what he thought and he said he thinks the guy in the store maybe just spouted off the 5 months off the top of his head. several things the guy said made me wonder about him. i will contact the actual owner of the store soon and ask them if they know when they got him.
 

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BrinnANDTorts

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I personally think he is maybe two weeks old or three because he Is just now showing his first new growth, so no he isn't very old at all. Just a baby
He looks just like Gupta did when I got him at three weeks old and how Pipa looks now and she is around that same one month mark , a little younger.
He little baby is unique :) he has a little split scute . Don't worry its only a cosmetic thing and has no effect on his health I just think its cute.
You should get humidity gauges and a temp gun soon to be sure of those things because they are super important :)
Also what bulb did you buy him ?
A ceramic heat emmiter can be used as an additional 24/7 heat source and they
should be used at night time to keep his cage above 80F and dark at the same time
Because he needs day and night cycles. 12 hour day and 12 hour night with no lights on but the ceramic heat emiters. They don't produce light , only heat
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Take some of that sand you have and mix it 70/30 with the coir. It will create better traction for him and will also help with the humidity.
Did the pet shop guy tell you how big your sweet baby will get? I have 14 year old Bob who is over 102 pounds now...
I think you should read this. It's called the Sulcata Challenge. Written by Julie Maguire...

http://turtlerescues.com/sulcata_challenge.htm
 

ascott

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Did the pet shop guy tell you how big your sweet baby will get?

LOL...this was the reason I asked earlier if the pet shop told you what type of tortoise you have there.... they are little cuties for sure :D
 
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Maggie Cummings

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ascott said:
Did the pet shop guy tell you how big your sweet baby will get?

LOL...this was the reason I asked earlier if the pet shop told you what type of tortoise you have there.... they are little cuties for sure :D

But she didn't answer you, that's why I asked again...BTW...You've been pretty quiet lately, everything alright?
 

marcy4hope

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yes, i knew when i got the sullie how big he would get. i was surprised when the guy in the shop told me he was 5 months, i commented that he was awful small for five months. i don't think he's only a month old or less though, as this particular pet store had the little guy before they moved to their new location, and they've been in their new spot since back in the fall this past year. i'll call the owners of the shop soon to find out more info. but yeah, i knew i was getting a tort that would grow really huge when i bought him. i didn't know all of the specifics by any means, but i knew he'd get really big.
 

BrinnANDTorts

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marcy4hope said:
yes, i knew when i got the sullie how big he would get. i was surprised when the guy in the shop told me he was 5 months, i commented that he was awful small for five months. i don't think he's only a month old or less though, as this particular pet store had the little guy before they moved to their new location, and they've been in their new spot since back in the fall this past year. i'll call the owners of the shop soon to find out more info. but yeah, i knew i was getting a tort that would grow really huge when i bought him. i didn't know all of the specifics by any means, but i knew he'd get really big.

Thats awesome that you already knew that :):).. I kinda had a feeling you did because in your first post it said you had been researching them and there is no way you wouldn't of come accross that information while researching.
You'd be shock how many people just don't know that about their sullies, or how to give them proper care. The proper care thing is mainly because all the information out there on the internet is wrong..never does it mention anything about humidity or hydration with soaks and mistings...Tells you to keep them on sand , doesn't mention anything about even giving them a water source in their cage. When I first got my sulcata I kept him that way because thats what everything said to do. Then one day I noticed he was starting to pyramid and googled it and it lead me to Tom's Care Sheet. I don't know how I didn't come across the care sheet or this website during my reseach before.
I even bought a very high rated book on amazon about how to keep them and its just usless.
Anyways its awesome though that more and more people who come onto the forum know about humidity (like you for instance)
That sulcata challenge thing that Maggie linked you to is really good for telling you how much work that sullies really are but it too associates pyramiding with diet and diet has little to do with it. Thats been proven by Tom , its all about hydration and humidity
 

marcy4hope

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before and after photos of the habitat i created for my sullie, louis. store told me to use sand, then i discovered this website and so i bought coco coir substrate and filled it last night. trying to get temp up. bought a 100 watt heat light - (i use a 75 watt red heat light at night). temp is now at a little over 80 degrees and humidity is a about 65%. my sullie sure likes this substrate a lot better than the sand. he's been digging in it, but didn't in the sand. (oh-my husband made the stand for the aquarium back when we bought a baby australian bearded dragon years ago. the dragon died of ripe old age last year.)
 

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pam

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Welcome he is soooooooooooooooo cute :)
 

Zamric

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maggie3fan said:
Take some of that sand you have and mix it 70/30 with the coir. It will create better traction for him and will also help with the humidity.
Did the pet shop guy tell you how big your sweet baby will get? I have 14 year old Bob who is over 102 pounds now...
I think you should read this. It's called the Sulcata Challenge. Written by Julie Maguire...

http://turtlerescues.com/sulcata_challenge.htm

My WalkingRock is 11 and 75 lbs... and neither of these 2 torts (WalkingRock and Bob) are fully grown, They can and do get VERY Large... I told everyone when he was 60 lbs that he was close to 1/3 his adult size... in the wild it would only be 1/4 his adult size.
Here is one of his most recent pics...
DSCN0377.jpg


... and this one was taken just a couple of days ago...
DSCN0480.jpg
 

Linzbragg

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Jacob said:
Welcome, Your Sulcata is Not 3 Months Old , Its Simply a Hatching Baby!
You Can Use Either Cyrpess Mulch or Coconut Fiber, Substract To Keep In Humidity

They told her it was at least 5 mos old

Welcome. I didn't get to do any research before I got my sully either and after all the wonderful advice I got on this forum, he now has a beautiful tort table with all the proper bulbs, heat, food and everything.
 
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