Need advice

[Jane/Teagan]

Have built a new 6ft by 3ft enclosure for our 2 hermann tortoises (Smeagol and Frodo). However now wonder if we need to add more lighting or heating. We currently only have the uvb uva combined lamp heater we had with our initial 3ft table.
The temp under lamp gets to 30 degrees and other end is 20.
Thanks in advance. Jane

 

[TammyJ]

Give each tortoise its own separate enclosure with the correct temperatures and humidity levels. They do not do well in pairs.
Nicely set out enclosure!

 

[wellington]

How old are they?
Three and under they need a closed chamber enclosure with 80% humidity and their own enclosures. The pick like gauges are not accurate at all. You need to get digital. You should more heat to both ends and light to the darker end.
The 20 is okay for night, not day and the 30 for basking is too low, should be 90-100F. Either lower the basking or get a bigger watt bulb

 

[Jane/Teagan]

How old are they?
Three and under they need a closed chamber enclosure with 80% humidity and their own enclosures. The pick like gauges are not accurate at all. You need to get digital. You should more heat to both ends and light to the darker end.
The 20 is okay for night, not day and the 30 for basking is too low, should be 90-100F. Either lower the basking or get a bigger watt bulb

Thank you for your reply. Looks like I have some work to do.

 

[Yvonne G]

I would set up a tube type fluorescent bulb over the center, lengthwise

 

[Jane/Teagan]

I would set up a tube type fluorescent bulb over the center, lengthwise

Do you think I need to separate them. I've had a sleepless night planning how to do this. Or should I just try the flourescent light first.
Jane

 

[COmtnLady]

Where does the ramp on the side go to?

You've got lots of interesting things in the enclosure, but everything mentioned above is pretty important to implement asap. For the moment, run something across the middle to turn it into 2 enclosures temporarily (maybe a "wall" three or four bricks tall? or a plywood divider?), then work on a longer-term solution. Be sure to add water to the "new" side. https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/signs-of-bullying-in-young-tortoises.188026/

Some ideas for closing the top to preserve humidity and temps -

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Jane/Teagan]

Where does the ramp on the side go to?

You've got lots of interesting things in the enclosure, but everything mentioned above is pretty important to implement asap. For the moment, run something across the middle to turn it into 2 enclosures temporarily (maybe a "wall" three or four bricks tall? or a plywood divider?), then work on a longer-term solution. https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/signs-of-bullying-in-young-tortoises.188026/

Some ideas for closing the top to preserve humidity and temps -

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

tortoiseforum.org

The ramp goes up to sleeping hides. Although the internal wall has a doorway my husband suggested changing that and building a second ramp with as you suggested a central split with ply.
We do have a smaller table of 3ftx 2ft and contemplated setting that up and the tortoises doing alternating weeks so they each have a week in the larger enclosure.
Plus we now intend on putting them in their outdoor enclosure at separate times.

 

[zolasmum]

Hello Jane and welcome from Devon -we have a Hermanns tortoise too - Zola - who has recently celebrated his 25th birthday. He is very lively and healthy, but this forum didn't exist when he was a baby, and I'm sure we would have done a lot of things differently for him,if we had known what we do now. Still, he survived, and he is the joy of our lives.
I hope your two babies will flourish too -best wishes from Angie

 

[Jane/Teagan]

Hello Jane and welcome from Devon -we have a Hermanns tortoise too - Zola - who has recently celebrated his 25th birthday. He is very lively and healthy, but this forum didn't exist when he was a baby, and I'm sure we would have done a lot of things differently for him,if we had known what we do now. Still, he survived, and he is the joy of our lives.
I hope your two babies will flourish too -best wishes from Angie

Hello Angie
Thank you for your lovely message. We have only had Frodo and Smeagol 2 months but already they are entrenched in our family.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I should have done more research prior to getting them. But then we would only have got one and missed out on both of their individual characters.
Couldn't bear to part with either of them now so need to make the adaptations everyone has kindly suggested to provide them both with healthy happy lives.
Jane

 

[COmtnLady]

We do have a smaller table of 3ftx 2ft and contemplated setting that up and the tortoises doing alternating weeks so they each have a week in the larger enclosure.

Don't switch them back and forth. They don't do well with change, and that would be like an ongoing constant-change-all-the-time, which would be really stressful for both of them. It would always smell like there was another tort around somewhere.


The ramp thing is such a cool idea. I want to steal a lot of your ideas. I love the "chalets" at the top. Did they figure it out, or just camp out in the hides on the lower level?

Where'd you get the fountain/water feature? I want one of those, too. (I wonder if they even make them over here...)


Your outside enclosure would be so easy to make into a closed chamber, you could just put plastic or plexi over the wire mesh. But... neither of your hatchlings are big enough to be outside all the time.

For the first two to three years every species of tortoise needs it to be 80's-to-90's Percent humidity, and similarly warm temps all the time. The best way to keep the humidity up is to have the bottom inch or so of substrate to be wet, and allow it to evaporate up through the five or six inches of substrate above it. Don't use any sort of sprayer, mister, fogger, or anything like that. They create droplets, which are too large for your babies to breathe. Look at the size of the nasal openings on your tortoises' faces, and think of the size of the water particles that come out of those sorts of things. Humidity should be relatively invisible, just moisture in the air, nothing you can really see. Those spray-things can cause respiratory issues, but, too dry can also, for other reasons.

This is how I do my substrate, or how to do it from scratch. It should give you an idea how to modify what already you have to do the same thing.


This is a copy of a similar answer to another member that might help you.

Since you already have several inches of substrate in place, I would make an observation hole somewhere towards the middle of the enclosure. (Easiest way, stick your finger down to the bottom of the enclosure and see how far up your finger the wetness comes.) I would slowly pour about a quart of warm water at a time into the corners and observe how long it takes to get to the observation hole. It may take much more water depending on the size of your enclosure, but go slowly because its considerably easier to add a bit more water than to try to remove too much water. You want about an inch of water in that lowest level so about up to the first knuckle on your finger. It will evaporate up through the other layers and create a slow-release steady humidity in the enclosure. Once its balanced and maintaining the humidity levels, pay attention to your gauges and when the humidity starts to drop a bit, add more warm water in the corners only to bring it back up to the right level. In no time you'll have a feel for how often it needs replenished.



The original post:
I buy the coco coir in the 3-brick packages which are a little cheaper and store more easily than the loose type. I also do NOT buy the loose stuff because it is harder to get it soaked well enough the first time , plus there is a "dusty" factor when you try to get it damp (that can cause you to cough like a fool for a bit - think what dusty coco coir does to the poor tortoises who are trying to live on it!). It also takes up a lot more space to store it in that form.

Then I use a very clean, definitely does not have any soap or other type of residue, five gallon bucket (I have two five gallon buckets dedicated to only tortoise substrate, nothing else).

Fill it about half-to-2/3 full of warm water and submerge one of the bricks. Allow it to soak until it has completely fallen apart, with no hard lumps left. You may have to add more water if it expands above the waterline.

Hand-wring-out as much of the water as possible and hand-pack it tightly into the bottom of the enclosure. Begin at one end and work your way to the other end, so that you can see if you got enough of the water out. You don't want standing water visible, especially not when you are finished.

Pack the coco coir about three inches deep. Pack it very firmly.

Next put a two to three inch layer of Orchid Bark/Fir Bark on top and pat it down - this doesn't have to be packed as firmly, but pat it down until it feels even and solid. Some use Cyprus Mulch instead, which is just as good, but I don't care for the swampy smell of the Cyprus Mulch.

Close your enclosure up tight and let it acclimate for several hours, then measure the humidity and heat. If it is too humid when you check, vent it until it is in the range that's best for your tortoise with the lid closed. If not humid enough (a good level is 84% and 84F for hatchlings of all species, and tropical adults) add more water in the corners.

Once its stable, put your tortoise into its new home.
I only change my substrate if there is a problem (a problem would be a funky smell that doesn't go away if that small particular area is replaced, mold, over-growth of a non-helpful insect, or something similar, or if its become tainted some other way {perhaps broken glass from a lightbulb}). Currently its been a couple years since my last substrate change, and I haven't had any problems with respiratory or plastron fungal infections.

.

 

[Jane/Teagan]

Don't switch them back and forth. They don't do well with change, and that would be like an ongoing constant-change-all-the-time, which would be really stressful for both of them. It would always smell like there was another tort around somewhere.


The ramp thing is such a cool idea. I want to steal a lot of your ideas. I love the "chalets" at the top. Did they figure it out, or just camp out in the hides on the lower level?

Where'd you get the fountain/water feature? I want one of those, too. (I wonder if they even make them over here...)


Your outside enclosure would be so easy to make into a closed chamber, you could just put plastic or plexi over the wire mesh. But... neither of your hatchlings are big enough to be outside all the time.

For the first two to three years every species of tortoise needs it to be 80's-to-90's Percent humidity, and similarly warm temps all the time. The best way to keep the humidity up is to have the bottom inch or so of substrate to be wet, and allow it to evaporate up through the five or six inches of substrate above it. Don't use any sort of sprayer, mister, fogger, or anything like that. They create droplets, which are too large for your babies to breathe. Look at the size of the nasal openings on your tortoises' faces, and think of the size of the water particles that come out of those sorts of things. Humidity should be relatively invisible, just moisture in the air, nothing you can really see. Those spray-things can cause respiratory issues, but, too dry can also, for other reasons.

This is how I do my substrate, or how to do it from scratch. It should give you an idea how to modify what already you have to do the same thing.


This is a copy of a similar answer to another member that might help you.



.

Just felt the ramp utilised more space. Our granddaughter wanted a Lord of the Rings theme, hence the names. My husband models the house on the prancing pony Inn in the film.

They had no problem using ramp. Although my granddaughter introduced them to the enclosure on the balcony so they came down first. But it's surprising that they take themselves up to bed. Fortunately they do sleep separately and my husband has now blocked the internal door.

We have decided he will make a second table so this is all going to be temporary measures.


He is currently making the support for the flourescent tube and ceramic heater I have bought this morning.

The digital thermostats arrive tomorrow.

You asked about a fountain. There isn't a fountain. I think what you are looking at is a grass in the centre of th wooden C.

I liked your idea about damping the base of substrate in each corner. I am going to place a tube in each so I can just put a funnel in and let water soak in.

Thank you to everyone who has responded and offered your words of wisdom. If only I had know about you prior. But then I wouldn't have both of my tortoises. Just means double the work. But then what else would we be doing on a bank holiday weekend

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello! Some fabulous advice above, second everything, I’d definitely get them in separate closed chambers, then once older they’ll need separate adult sized set ups, I know a great company that make custom sizes and you can stack them to take up less space

Hopefully you’ll find these useful in regards to lighting etc

I made this thread based on the forums care information and added visual aids, it covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc), correct levels, importance of a closed chamber for younger tortoises(only way to maintain the humidity you need), appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything, and a really handy diet link to check out! This goes over a greenhouse style set up, but a viv is an even better choice, I’ll add some more ideas below for closed chambers

Housing young Russian/Herman

Hello there! In this thread, I’m going to include some information on an effective way to tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size once your baby is an adult. I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to break down any information...

tortoiseforum.org

These are some different closed chamber options, vivs are the best choice and stackable

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

tortoiseforum.org

Lastly, this one here is importantly to go over and keep on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Really hope they help! I know it may feel overwhelming at first, but please take the time you need to read all the information and reach out with any further questions, we can break things down bit by bit, and help step by step. welcome to the forum!