Need Help With Setup

[EarthUponWater]

I recently bought a Forest Hingeback online. I am assuming she is correctly labeled and that she is wild-caught. I've barely seen her, but we're getting there. She will poke her head out now.

I've had her in a 28qt tub with just a towel for the past two weeks. I've soaked her for an hour every day, but haven't tried to feed her yet. I know, bad. After she gets used to her new setup, I will be trying more attentively to feed her. I'll be offering food after her setup is complete.

It was recommended to me on another forum to make a cage out of a kiddie pool. I'm happily doing so. I'm not sure of the square footage, but it's called summer Escapes GF, if that means anything. Here is what I currently have set up:

*Cypress Mulch substrate, thin layer as I ran out. Considering some sort of soil?
*Fake plants for cover around the edge.
*Rodent igloos for hides
*Separate water bowl
*Soaking dish
*Daylight Blue Reptile Bulb
*Some sort of heat bulb. Not sure at the moment, will look

I'll get pictures as soon as I can. My camera is charging, so we have to wait. Is there anything I need to add or change based on the current information?

 

[Candy]

Welcome to the forum. I was just wondering why you are not offering her food? Do you have heat on her at this moment or not? I think the soil would be o.k. if you don't have anything else available. They are very shy, but the ones who own them on here love them to bits.

 

[EarthUponWater]

I mostly haven't fed her because my fridge broke about two days after I got her and I didn't notice for three days (was gone from the house most of the time). All the food went bad. Then, it took until about four days ago for the landlord to get me a new one. I wanted to make sure it worked properly before buying food again. So far it seems to be working fine, so when my paycheck comes in, I'll be buying food.

Also, the day she came in, the UPS driver didn't knock on my door and the poor tort was sitting facing east from 9:45am until 1:00pm. I opened the box and the temperature was over 100 degrees. I wanted to make sure that she didn't have any problems from sitting in heat like that all day. I called UPS and threw a fit because the box required a signature and if it had been some of my corn snakes instead of my tort, I'd have dead animals. Thankfully, the tort comes from a hot place and isn't like corn snakes that will die if the temps are over 85 degrees F.

I don't have heat on at this very moment. I house her in my snake room. The room has four fish tanks and a turtle tank for humidity. It stays at around 82 degrees F. Not hot enough, but I needed to cool it off enough so that I could move furniture. All we need is for the food giver to die of heat stroke in the snake room. Lol.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Soaking for an hour is too long. 15 minutes is enough and I think it's mean not to spend $5 on some Spring Mix and feed her. She must be starving to death...ugh!

 

[Itort]

You do need to offer food, if you can get over ripe fruit from the grocery (ask for some that they are throwing out) that would be great. 85 degree temp is fine and in fact in the prefered range for these guys. The kiddie pool is good with about a 50/50 mix of cypress and dirt will do fine though difficult to clean. A wading pool of about 1.5x shell length is good as are the hides. For heat I would suggest a CHE on one end of habitat. They prefer subdued light so the plants are good. The diet should consist of soft fruits, an animal protein source, mushrooms, and greens.

 

[Jacqui]

I agree, don't wait any longer, start offering her food now. These guys can be slow to get started eating and you really don't need to give her more time to be burning off what may be needed stength/weight for a long "battle" to get her eating.

The pool will work, if it's got tall enough sides for both the depth of substrate she will enjoy and to keep her from being able to climb out. Hingebacks are great climbers. Is this going to be one using another pool as the top? Can you give us a guess as to how large this pool is?

Usually just the natural light is enough without needing to add another (as in your case you talked of a blue light). I agree with the CHE for the heat source, but this time of year, you must likely won't even need this...unless you ave AC and keep your home cool.

You have listed both a water bowl and a soaking dish, but you just need one. Hingebacks usually love to soak, so be sure her dish is large and deep enough to allow her room for that.

I would try to allow her to soak on her own, as usually with new wild caught Hingebacks, they really don't like a lot of human handling. It just stresses them too much.

The hides will work, but I would try to get the solid ones, rather then the pretty ones you can see thru. It will add to her feeling more secured and less stressed in my opinion.

Before I forget, welcome to the exciting and sometimes frustrating challenging world of the hingeback tortoises!

 

[chairman]

Hingebacks really are great climbers. I kept my hingebacks in pools when I had an aparment and I had one who would mound substrate (don't know if this was on purpose or not), stretch as far as he could up the wall of the pool, hook over a toe of the front foot, and use that to pull himself over the edge, back feet scrabbling the whole time to get the extra push he needed. At first I just found it annoying to have to search my apartment for him daily, but then he started to get a cut on the back of his head from his nuchal scute hitting him as he impacted the ground. He still has a little scar, and the scute retains a little damage from contact the floor when he was smart enough to pull his head in before he hit the ground.

So, anyway, the pool can work, just keep an eye on things.

Also, I agree that feeding should start ASAP. My second hingeback refused to eat for something like 4-6 months when I first got him. The first foods my hingebacks would eat were squashes, banana, and papaya. Earthworms are good too, but I would place them in the empty wading dish for the initial feedings. Worms can dig themselves into substrate more quickly than a shy tortoise will come out of thier shell after a feeding visit.

 

[Angi]

I hope I don't sound too bitchy, but when the fridge broke did you quit eating? If the fridge is still broken you can buy a banana or something that does not require refridgeration for now. I don't know anything about Hindgebacks but if they are meat eaters bug and worm hunting can be fun

 

[Jacqui]

I hope I don't sound too bitchy, but when the fridge broke did you quit eating? If the fridge is still broken you can buy a banana or something that does not require refridgeration for now. I don't know anything about Hindgebacks but if they are meat eaters bug and worm hunting can be fun

Yes they do. Just be sure the bugs, like the plants, come from safe areas with no chemical/fertilizer use and even possibly the use of any ivermectin type products on any animals who may leave their manure behind. Remember what the bugs eat, is what they can pass on to your tortoise.

 

[Jacqui]

As I was driving yesterday, I thought I should have added this point too. While Hingebacks do like worms and such, they tend to not be big hunters. They want food (including the live things) to just sit there and wiggle around to catch their attention, but not crawl off. They tend to be lazy hunters.

 

[EarthUponWater]

Sorry for slow reply... internet check didn't go through in time and my internet was shut off. 0_o

Let's see if I can answer everything:

I soak her for an hour because she won't come out to drink at all until about 50 minutes of being in the water. I'm hoping to reduce it as she gets used to me, but slow going thus far.

I'll try the cypress/dirt mix and over the next few months see how it does for me. What is CHE? I have snakes, but haven't heard this particular abbreviation. Does it matter as to the species of mushroom? I know which ones I like to eat, so if it doesn't matter so much, I won't have to change what I buy too much. The pool is roughly 54 inches in diameter and roughly 12 inches deep. I plan on using storage grids for a "lid" and perhaps some coroplast if needed. I use the same materials for my guinea pig cages (called C&C cages).

If I can get her to eat, I'll probably buy some big Terra cotta pots and use 100% silicone to glue slate or some sort of stone to make custom hides. I'll probably use stone to hold down the "lid" as well, just in case.

@Angi: Try not to take this the wrong way, as I know it's possible you may read the following in a different way than intended. I'm in no way trying to be confrontational. The reason I didn't feed her when my fridge died was because I'd just spent the very last of my money on food for the month, including food for her. Then the stupid thing died and by the time I noticed, it was too late to save anything. I didn't eat anything other than some dry goods and just got paid a few days ago. I had not choice but to let her starve because of lack of money.

On the plus side, I did buy stuff that she will hopefully eat. As I type, I have a banana sitting in front of her. It's been there for almost two hours and there hasn't been a nibble. In the morning, I'll take it out and see if I can't get her to try strawberries. Luckily, if she doesn't eat the banana, I have two dogs that would be in heaven if they have to eat it. I did forget the worms though. Will probably get them tomorrow when I get the spider food.

If I can get her to reliably eat worms, I'll set up a farm. My painted turtle will eat them if I push her to (which is odd seeing as she's WC and I know for a fact they eat them in the wild). I've been getting mixed information on mealworms. Good for the tort or bad? The turtle loves them and I get them for the geckos and fish. It would be great to have another who eats them. Still wondering if I should try the garter snake on them....

What about wax worms, maggots, isopods (pill bugs/rollie pollies), crickets? What about melons (watermelon, cantaloupe, honey dew)? I bought a butternut squash. Will this be okay? Lastly, blueberries, raspberries, grapes, oranges, pears, peaches, plantains?

 

[Jacqui]

Sorry for slow reply... internet check didn't go through in time and my internet was shut off. 0_o

Don't you hate it, when that happens?

Let's see if I can answer everything:

I soak her for an hour because she won't come out to drink at all until about 50 minutes of being in the water. I'm hoping to reduce it as she gets used to me, but slow going thus far.
Since it's a hingeback, the long soak time doesn't really bother me, as many of mine do long soaks all on their own. I do worry more about if the actual handling may be adding stress. I can't judge that not knowing how shy she even is.

I'll try the cypress/dirt mix and over the next few months see how it does for me. What is CHE? I have snakes, but haven't heard this particular abbreviation.
CHE stands for Ceramic Heat Emitter

Does it matter as to the species of mushroom? I know which ones I like to eat, so if it doesn't matter so much, I won't have to change what I buy too much.
Any kind you can eat is fine with them too.

@Angi: Try not to take this the wrong way, as I know it's possible you may read the following in a different way than intended. I'm in no way trying to be confrontational. The reason I didn't feed her when my fridge died was because I'd just spent the very last of my money on food for the month, including food for her. Then the stupid thing died and by the time I noticed, it was too late to save anything. I didn't eat anything other than some dry goods and just got paid a few days ago. I had not choice but to let her starve because of lack of money.
I had that happen with a huge coffin type freezer filled to the brim with meat. Middle of summer of course and was that a stinky mess!

On the plus side, I did buy stuff that she will hopefully eat. As I type, I have a banana sitting in front of her. It's been there for almost two hours and there hasn't been a nibble. In the morning, I'll take it out and see if I can't get her to try strawberries. Luckily, if she doesn't eat the banana, I have two dogs that would be in heaven if they have to eat it. I did forget the worms though. Will probably get them tomorrow when I get the spider food.
Just be sure you don't allow her to get hooked on bananas. Also try melons, mango, papaya (the bright yellow and red type fruits are good). Also even if you could get some safe weeds (mine especially like dandelion leaves and blooms), grape leaves, and hibiscus blooms are like candy to mine, plus are pretty good for them. Why not ask Spike to send you a free sample of mazuri while your at it.

If I can get her to reliably eat worms, I'll set up a farm. My painted turtle will eat them if I push her to (which is odd seeing as she's WC and I know for a fact they eat them in the wild). I've been getting mixed information on mealworms. Good for the tort or bad? The turtle loves them and I get them for the geckos and fish. It would be great to have another who eats them. Still wondering if I should try the garter snake on them....

What about wax worms, maggots, isopods (pill bugs/rollie pollies), crickets?
Mine tend to love the butterworms, but aren't so hot on the rest. If you have some already give it a try. Main thing is variety
What about melons (watermelon, cantaloupe, honey dew)? I bought a butternut squash. Will this be okay? Lastly, blueberries, raspberries, grapes, oranges, pears, peaches, plantains?

Yes to the melons, but mine aren't as hot for the honeydews. Squash is ok. I would either cook it or grind it, as with mine that's how they seem to like it best. I would stay away from the grapes and oranges, but even a bite of that won't hurt them. I am not big on pears and peaches, but I know others feed them often. Try to go for variety and a balanced diet. Not just one or two things or just the "candy" (sweets like fruits, especially the addictive bananas. )
Jacqui

 

[EarthUponWater]

Thanks. I'll have to write all this down soon.

I tried the banana and a slice of mushroom. Not even a nibble and I left both in for a good twelve hours. Dogs sure did like them though!

She is pretty shy. I have her in the living room at the moment so that she can see me on the couch, but I'm far enough away not to be a threat. She'll sit there staring at me for hours. As soon as I go to put food in, she hides. She does move around though, so I know she's not dead. I'm going to try the squash next and see if I can't find some butterworms. And, watermelon sounds really good today, so I'm going to buy some. Make a melon salad for the tort, guinea pig, and myself. And maybe the dogs.... Lol.

 

[Jacqui]

Some times it helps to put the food dish right next to her hide.

 

[EarthUponWater]

I wanted to update a little. I still haven't gotten her to eat. Really running out of ideas. I forgot to try watermelon, so I have that on my list for next shopping trip. My dogs are really having fun eating all the things she won't. I did take her outside to the park for a good two hours. I needed my painted turtle to dry out some so I could check out her shell (which I'm also having problems with for some reason). After about an hour, the tort came out. Soon after, she was following the turtle around on the blanket (I used my extra grids from my guinea pig cage for a fence). It was pretty funny. The painted turtle is zooming around the pen and the tort was following like a dog at an extremely slow pace. She is now getting to the point where if I move and scare her, she sticks her head out again within ten minutes.

I also brought her over to a friend's house after I brought her to my local reptile shop to see if they had any advice. Still trying to figure out why I thought they would help, because they couldn't even tell me what she was. Anyway, after about twenty minutes of sitting on the table while we worked on model kits, she scooted to the edge of the table and tried to fall off. It took two times of her trying to jump for me to put her on the floor. After that, she wondered through the two rooms. She tried to drink the linoleum so I brought her a cookie sheet of water, which she drank for a good thirty minutes. She then preceded to pee on my friend's carpet and walk over the dog's face. Luckily, the dog couldn't care less about another animal. So, progress has been made!

On a side note, I've been trying to find moss in bulk. Most of it is for my spiders and snakes, but I wanted to use it with the mulch and dirt for the tort as well. I found some "sheet moss" at Home Depot. I bought a few bags because I thought I would try it with at least the spider. What do you think about using it with the tort?

It looks similar to: http://www.garden.com/item/mosser-l...-201B-DF11-AE5B-0019B9C2BEFD&mr:referralID=NA

 

[Jacqui]

First off, I will start with the easy question...the moss. I can't answer, because I would really want to see it in person to tell what it really is and how workable it would be.

Now for the other thing and I am not sure how to say this so it comes out correctly, but...

I would not be dragging this tortoise all over the place (nor exposing it to all kinds of possible danger (the dog, the table, being loose in a house) or contamination from the turtle who has his own set of germs (and health issues if I am reading right?). If you must take it every where,please at least wait until he is eating.

I just think all the handling and visiting is causing him stress. If it were my tortoise, I would have him in a quiet, peaceful place until he is eating (and eating well). Then slowly get him use to all the activity.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but seriously I am doubting that a hingeback is the right kind of tortoise for you. These animals are pretty much shy and retiring critters, not social butterflies.

 

[EarthUponWater]

I don't mean to sound harsh either, but the more I bring the tortoise out with the turtle and myself, the more I see her when we're inside. The turtle's problem is that she's not shedding properly. I haven't been watching her hours everyday, but I think she's not getting out of the water enough. I'm in the works of building a different type of platform for her and will be draining her tank Sunday to install it. I have to set up another tank for the turtle in the meantime and had to arrange things.

Both the turtle and the tortoise are wild-caught, so they both need to be wormed and what-have-you. That won't be happening until the 18th. I'm thinking that the other problem is that the cage might be too small for the tortoise. It's a kiddy pool, but I'm waiting to move extra tanks around so I can build an addition to the pool. I'm thinking about making the pool itself into an actual pond and building an enclosure similar to someone else's tort house. I'll have to ask her if I can share pictures, but it will essentially be made of wood with real plants, a pond, and hopefully real grass. I have to wait to sell a few empty tanks first though.

On the plus side, on Aug 14, tomorrow, the local expo is going on and I know the people I got her from will be there. So, I'm going to go yell at them for additional information on her.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Please don't let different species come in contact with each other or areas each other have been as they have different parasites that can kill the other one. You also need to be careful of public & private grassy areas as most all of them use chemicals on the grass that can harm the tort (I go so far as to feed my tort all organic as mine eats 100% produce so chemicals can be more harmful to him that humans which eat part of their diet as produce). Both need a fecal test for parasites (I recommend this for all torts & turtles, regardless of their history--my baby captive bred tort had two kinds of parasites the first 6 months I had him). You need a few hundred saved up for emergency vet bills. Sorry to be harsh but it sounds like you can't afford to have this tort right now. The tort needs some stability.

You may see it "come out of its shell" when you take it out, but that is likely because it is running around looking for a safe place to hide because its scared, not because it is becoming more accustomed to you. Hingebacks are very very tricky even for experienced keepers and I'd hate for you to be heartbroken with it dying. I would even go so far as to place the hingeback in a quiet darker place in the house so as the footsteps, stereo/tv, and other vibrations wouldn't startle it so much (torts can't hear so much as they feel vibrations). I would leave it alone for a few weeks to settle in to the new home and start eating regularly. There really isn't a reason to ever be taking the hingeback out of the enclosure except to handle it every couple days to check for any injuries or illnesses (other torts I'd want to take outside for some sun if they were indoors, but even then, only in a secure enclosure they are accustomed to). Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[EarthUponWater]

To be honest, I'm getting really frustrated here. I'm trying not to be snappy, but the only thing I really want to say is "what right is it for everyone else to decide whether I should be a hingeback owner?", however I know this won't solve anything. I just feel like I'm not getting enough support here and that everyone is just telling me how bad of an owner I'm being instead of giving advice. It sort of makes me want to cry because I feel I'm not getting the information I need. As for the whole "you don't have money" thing, this isn't true. I have a wide income from $1000 to $8000 monthly. The past two months were just bad months and money I had saved went towards medical bills for me. This coming month should be going a lot better. Right now, I'd like to start over with all this. So, let's back track:

I have a female forest hingeback who is not eating. I believe she was imported straight from Africa and after being at the expo yesterday, and talking with the company I bought her from, I'm very unhappy. They had a male hingeback that I wanted to rescue. He was wild-caught according to the company and had bone showing on his shell. He was in with some other torts and running around climbing on everyone. Maybe trying to escape as some of you believe mine was doing. After talking with the company, I'm not only convinced that their business practices aren't up to par, but also that they generally only care about making a buck. They have three companies that I know of selling turtles/torts, frogs/toads/etc, and spiders/bugs. I'm also convinced that they do not follow expo rules and sell sick/non-eating animals. I have a strong opinion that my tort was probably imported/qt-ed, sent to the company and was probably sent to me within a few months of being imported. She probably never ate but has been going off whatever reserves she may have had. I will not be buying from this company again and will possibly be filing a complaint in the future.

My tort has not eaten. I've tried strawberries, lettuce, banana, worms, meal worms, crickets, and a handful of other things I can't think of right now. I have not tried many squashes or melons, but will be trying those throughout the week. On the 18th, both my tort and turtle will be going to the vet for a general check-all and de-wormers. I also recently bought dubia roaches and will be trying those if they are okay for this tort.

The enclosure currently consists of a swimming pool of roughly 54 inches in diameter. There is mulch in there at the moment, but I will be adding moss into the mixture sometime today. I bought new bulbs for the tort, turtle, and my new bearded dragons, so I will be switching from a dome UVB to a strip bulb. This will also be done today. There is a "swimming pool" available, three hide (I need to get more), fake plants, and a food bowl.

I'm wondering if I should put timothy hay in for the tort to hide in, or maybe shredded paper. I worry that these might mold too easily but believe I have read that they like to hide in hay. I have to re-check the temperature and humidity because I forgot to close the door last night and all the heat/humidity has left that room. It usually is around 79-82 degrees in this room with 60-68 humidity for the snakes. I have a heat lamp for the tort, but am thinking of putting it on a timer. In the next few days, I'll be setting up a webcam to record the thermometers in that room to see how much of a spike there is. I assume that at night, it is okay to let the temp fall a few degrees.

I'll take pictures of the enclosure when I get a chance today. Based on the information in this post, is there anything else I need to do besides trying to get her to eat? Please disregard any previous information in this thread and go off of what is in this post and after.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi "EarthUponWater:"

I'm sorry if you think we're picking on you. That's really not our intention.

I don't keep hingeback tortoises, and I know nothing about them except what I've read here on the forum. And from all that I've read, they are VERY shy and reclusive tortoises and should be left alone.

Please look through our hingeback section and see if you can't find answers to your questions and some help with getting this tortoise to eat. We have several hingeback keepers on the forum and I'm sure they've been through what you're going through.

Good luck with your tortoise. and please keep us informed.