Need help. (worms?)

[itsjustzy]

I'm from the Philippines and could use some advice. I have a 4-5-month-old Greek Ibera Tortoise, about 3 inches long and 2 inches wide. He seems normal and follows a daily routine: waking up, exploring, basking, eating a bit, then hiding and burrowing for the rest of the day until the cycle repeats.

Our environment is on the warmer side, with an ambient daytime temperature of 30°C and humidity at 70%-80%. His basking area reaches 36°C-38°C, with a humidity level of 50%-60%. I spot clean his enclosure regularly and do a full substrate change every month. The substrate is a mix of Reptibark, cocopeat, and some sphagnum moss in his hide. I spray his enclosure morning and night, just enough to maintain humidity without making it too damp. I also soak him twice a week since I don’t want to force his bowel movements.

For diet, I feed a variety of river spinach (not the same as the spinach in your country), jute leaves, sweet potato leaves, occasional squash, mustard greens, and high-fiber, low-protein pellets. However, he's a very picky eater. Some days, he barely eats, only nibbling 1-2 leaves, but he actively roams and burrows. He loves the pellets and can eat 3-4 at once.

Here’s my question. I fed him squash on Wednesday, and when I soaked him in lukewarm water for 30 minutes on Friday, he had a normal-looking poop at first. After changing the water, his next poop surprised me. While it wasn’t fully liquid, it broke apart right away and had an orange tint from the squash. I also noticed some small worms, which I suspect might be pinworms. I read that squash can act as a natural dewormer, but I’m still concerned, so I’ve booked a vet checkup for him in two weeks to check for pinworms. From what I’ve heard, some pinworms might actually be beneficial to a tortoise’s gut flora—is that correct? His poops have returned to normal and are now solid again, but I wanted to get your thoughts.

Additionally, he doesn’t love eating greens and usually only eats the pellets. I tried chopping the leaves and mixing them with the pellets, but he wouldn’t eat, even the next day. Is it normal for a baby tortoise to eat so little, or could this be due to the pinworms? I’m keeping an eye on his poops to see if the issue recurs. I also rarely see him drink from his water dish, but I always provide fresh water and food daily. He doesn’t appear stressed since he doesn’t scrape the sides of the enclosure and enjoys exploring. He’s currently in a 33L megabox container, but I’m planning to transfer him to a larger 48x26x10-inch enclosure soon.

Any insights you could provide would be much appreciated. Am I just being paranoid?

 

[wellington]

Couple things. Do not use moss of any kind, it can cause entanglement inside and out.
Soak him daily, babies need daily soaks.
Also your temps a high. Basking should be 95-100F
All over day temps should range from 75-80F
Night temps around 70-75F.
May be too hot and that's why it's not eating much. Humidity should be 80% and the correct temps and humidity can be accomplished and held steady more easily with a closed chamber enclosure.
Pumpkin I have heard helps with deworming. The whole thing needs to be fed, seeds and all. So for a baby, blend it up to mush. I don't know if just any squash will do the same.

 

[itsjustzy]

Couple things. Do not use moss of any kind, it can cause entanglement inside and out.
Soak him daily, babies need daily soaks.
Also your temps a high. Basking should be 95-100F
All over day temps should range from 75-80F
Night temps around 70-75F.
May be too hot and that's why it's not eating much. Humidity should be 80% and the correct temps and humidity can be accomplished and held steady more easily with a closed chamber enclosure.
Pumpkin I have heard helps with deworming. The hold thing needs to be fed, seeds and all. So for a baby, blend it up to mush. I don't know if just any squash will do the same.

Basking temp is alright since 95F is 35C and 100F is 38C so i'm well within the range. But the ambient is around 86F to 88F range and i can't do nothing about it since we're really hot in the summer, Rainy days is around 80F which is within the range. Night temps are okay as well reaching 80F I always maintain to 70 Humidity and not too damp. But in baby tortoises? do they tend to eat less during their first years? or it's a case to case basis? I am still waiting for my infared temp gun to see if it's in the range

 

[wellington]

No, babies usually eat a lot. Maybe if you could expand the enclosure so the basking is at one end and use some plants to shield the other end from the basking heat that might help a little. Then feed on the other end.

 

[Tom]

I'm from the Philippines and could use some advice. I have a 4-5-month-old Greek Ibera Tortoise, about 3 inches long and 2 inches wide. He seems normal and follows a daily routine: waking up, exploring, basking, eating a bit, then hiding and burrowing for the rest of the day until the cycle repeats.

Our environment is on the warmer side, with an ambient daytime temperature of 30°C and humidity at 70%-80%. His basking area reaches 36°C-38°C, with a humidity level of 50%-60%. I spot clean his enclosure regularly and do a full substrate change every month. The substrate is a mix of Reptibark, cocopeat, and some sphagnum moss in his hide. I spray his enclosure morning and night, just enough to maintain humidity without making it too damp. I also soak him twice a week since I don’t want to force his bowel movements.

For diet, I feed a variety of river spinach (not the same as the spinach in your country), jute leaves, sweet potato leaves, occasional squash, mustard greens, and high-fiber, low-protein pellets. However, he's a very picky eater. Some days, he barely eats, only nibbling 1-2 leaves, but he actively roams and burrows. He loves the pellets and can eat 3-4 at once.

Here’s my question. I fed him squash on Wednesday, and when I soaked him in lukewarm water for 30 minutes on Friday, he had a normal-looking poop at first. After changing the water, his next poop surprised me. While it wasn’t fully liquid, it broke apart right away and had an orange tint from the squash. I also noticed some small worms, which I suspect might be pinworms. I read that squash can act as a natural dewormer, but I’m still concerned, so I’ve booked a vet checkup for him in two weeks to check for pinworms. From what I’ve heard, some pinworms might actually be beneficial to a tortoise’s gut flora—is that correct? His poops have returned to normal and are now solid again, but I wanted to get your thoughts.

Additionally, he doesn’t love eating greens and usually only eats the pellets. I tried chopping the leaves and mixing them with the pellets, but he wouldn’t eat, even the next day. Is it normal for a baby tortoise to eat so little, or could this be due to the pinworms? I’m keeping an eye on his poops to see if the issue recurs. I also rarely see him drink from his water dish, but I always provide fresh water and food daily. He doesn’t appear stressed since he doesn’t scrape the sides of the enclosure and enjoys exploring. He’s currently in a 33L megabox container, but I’m planning to transfer him to a larger 48x26x10-inch enclosure soon.

Any insights you could provide would be much appreciated. Am I just being paranoid?

Hello and welcome!

1. You should not use moss. It does nothing, and they always eat it, and it can cause impaction.
2. Soaking the tortoise doesn't force the bowels. Soak as often as you want. It does no harm. Whoever told you that is wrong and they are parroting old wrong info. I soak babies every single day, and they poop in the soak water every single day, and they thrive, grow up and produce their own babies. If too much soaking was bad for them, they wouldn't thrive that way.
3. You do not need to change the substrate. Spot clean and soak often and the enclosure will stay relatively clean. It doesn't harm anything to clean it out every month, but its not necessary.
4. Sounds like you need a much better more varied diet. I don't know most of those foods, but I think sweet potato leaves are toxic. Regular potatoes are. Not a food I would feed. Mustard greens are bitter and many torts don't like them. I think you need to find some foods he likes. Try lettuce with the right amendments added. How about tender young hibiscus leaves and flowers? Do they have mulberry trees there? What weeds are around? Do you have cilantro, arugula, endive and escarole there? How about spring mix? It will take a long time to get him eating all these new and better foods.
5. Your enclosure is way too small. The new one you are planning to get is too small too. 48x24 is the recommended size for a tiny hatching. At 3 inches, its time for something larger.
6. About the pinworms: This is debatable. Everyone has a different opinion about it. If the numbers are not too bad, it is my opinion that the treatment can do more harm than the worms. If it is a heavy infestation and the tortoise is showing symptoms like lethargy and lack of appetite, treatment may be beneficial. Its a judgement call.
7. Be careful of vets. Most of them know medicine and surgery, but they don't know husbandry, and often give the same terrible advice from the same terrible sources that everyone else gets their info from.

Have you seen this thread yet?

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[itsjustzy]

No, babies usually eat a lot. Maybe if you could expand the enclosure so the basking is at one end and use some plants to shield the other end from the basking heat that might help a little. Then feed on the other end.

I see. I did checked the substrate and when i squeeze it, it is kinda dry but confused since it was measured at 70% humidity. And when i misted it with water, it was now moist but not too wet when squeezing it. He became very active and burrows more, saw him eating leaves which is a huge surprise and i think that was the issue. But i will still monitor his conditions and check his weight tom and check for any pinworms. Thank you for the insights! I am planning on upgrading his enclosure but my space is very limited now but i do have the money to buy the enclosure, just the room and space is limited and i need to fix our front house to put it there. Again, thank you!

 

[itsjustzy]

Hello and welcome!

1. You should not use moss. It does nothing, and they always eat it, and it can cause impaction.
2. Soaking the tortoise doesn't force the bowels. Soak as often as you want. It does no harm. Whoever told you that is wrong and they are parroting old wrong info. I soak babies every single day, and they poop in the soak water every single day, and they thrive, grow up and produce their own babies. If too much soaking was bad for them, they wouldn't thrive that way.
3. You do not need to change the substrate. Spot clean and soak often and the enclosure will stay relatively clean. It doesn't harm anything to clean it out every month, but its not necessary.
4. Sounds like you need a much better more varied diet. I don't know most of those foods, but I think sweet potato leaves are toxic. Regular potatoes are. Not a food I would feed. Mustard greens are bitter and many torts don't like them. I think you need to find some foods he likes. Try lettuce with the right amendments added. How about tender young hibiscus leaves and flowers? Do they have mulberry trees there? What weeds are around? Do you have cilantro, arugula, endive and escarole there? How about spring mix? It will take a long time to get him eating all these new and better foods.
5. Your enclosure is way too small. The new one you are planning to get is too small too. 48x24 is the recommended size for a tiny hatching. At 3 inches, its time for something larger.
6. About the pinworms: This is debatable. Everyone has a different opinion about it. If the numbers are not too bad, it is my opinion that the treatment can do more harm than the worms. If it is a heavy infestation and the tortoise is showing symptoms like lethargy and lack of appetite, treatment may be beneficial. Its a judgement call.
7. Be careful of vets. Most of them know medicine and surgery, but they don't know husbandry, and often give the same terrible advice from the same terrible sources that everyone else gets their info from.

Have you seen this thread yet?

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

1. I see, then i will not put it in the enclosure when i get it
2. Noted on this, i usually do this two times a week but i might have to change it every day!
3. Got it, I'll just have backups of my substrate if ever there is an issue with the current one
4. As of now we don't have access to dandelion or collard greens but i do have access to romain lettuce, bokchoy and then those at the current diet. Right now i am buying some mulberry cuttings for it to grow here so i can have access, will buy seeds as well for cilantro, arugula, mustard greens and jute leaves for me to have access, i am also considering buying opuntia cactus for him
5. I know but once i get the front yard to be free, i'm planning to make the enclosure enough even if he is an adult
6. I see, if ever i see some of it in the next days or weeks then i'll have to consult to a vet but if not, i'll just give him his proper care and hopefully it can go less
7. Got it but i got a trusted vet here in the PH who knows stuff

Thread: For the thread i did not see that but i will thoroughly read it for a guide, I'm really sorry if ever i posted in the wrong thread since i am still grasping the tortoise forum, Again thanks for the wonderful insights!

 

[itsjustzy]

@Tom & @wellington

Just wanna update you about my case! really helped me a lot with your guidance and all, so I went to a vet and guess what? My tort has fungal hypae, giardisis, pinworms, and amoeba from the start. The vet said that some of the parasites he got were from my diet, and I immediately changed and added variety, so I went to a local farm and bought arugula, cilantro, mustard greens, mulberry leaves, romaine lettuce, kale, Asian pigeonwings (moderately since it's a legume) and the exoprime pellets (kind of like zoomed tortoise grassland food in your country) twice a week to supplement it. That's why it was not eating that much. Luckily it was prevented and gave me fenbendazole to aid the disease. After months of force feeding the meds, I was shocked to see his first bowl was empty, then it went to a pattern now and started eating a lot and ate mostly the greens I picked from the garden. Second vet checkup, and my tort improved and had dead worms now but not fully healed yet and prescribed me with another set of medicines. Really energetic now and went from 68g (first vet) to 78g (second vet) to 85g now! Many thanks for the guide and all!

 

[wellington]

Glad things are looking up.