Need shipping advice

normav

New Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
17
After 22 years, I have found a great new home for my wild-caught Yellowfoot pair. Unfortunately, I live in North Dakota, and their new home is in the Hawaiian Islands. I have the permits, and the CVI exam is pending, and blah blah blah. Here is why I am sweating bullets:
I started with fed ex and Reptiles Express. He was very helpful, but advised me to go with Delta, based on the fact that these are full-grown tortoises. Because live animals can't fly on a 767, Delta has me traveling 440 miles to Billings, Montana immediately following their morning CVI exam here with their vet, to fly them from Billings into Salt Lake City, spending the night, and flying the next day into Honolulu. I have spoken to Delta 3 different times to get where I am.
# 1. I can't get a straight answer about acceptable shipping containers, substrate, etc. The IATA guidelines emailed to me say, "Tortoises and turtles may be packed in rigid plastic containers," but the examples given are wooden crates with "screened ventilation openings" and "padding (closed cell foam preferred) or other materials in the container must be covered or otherwise shielded from ingestion." I may have read on the Delta website that only dogs and cats can travel in plastic-kennel type crates with metal doors. I don't want to drive 7 hours only to be rejected at the Billings airport based on the vague, confusing, and multi-species container requirements I am trying to follow. The third agent I spoke with actually suggested I visit a pet store to ask them what shipping containers they sell for reptiles. Can someone that ships MATURE, 17-21 lb tortoises tell me what containers to put my animals in for shipping?
#2. I was told during all three phone calls that the temperature requirements listed (20-80 degrees F. at departure and arrival airports) don't apply to me because tortoises are 'cold-blooded,' but I am petrified someone will say, "Oh sorry, it's 83 degrees in Salt Lake City today, so I won't take your tortoises after you have driven 440 miles today." I also found a clause on the Delta website that states, "Any animal shipped as a pet (including exempted animals) must follow temperature limits (20-80 degrees)." Can someone that ships tortoises regularly assure me that Delta will ship my tortoises if it is between 80-85 degrees in Billings, Salt Lake, and Honolulu the second week in July?
#3. Should I freak out that I can't get my animals to Honolulu in one day? They are only allowed one layover by the airline, and they have to be at the airport a minimum of two (and preferable three) hours prior to each leg of the flight, which cuts out any same-day flights (let's not forget they can't fly out of closer airports to me because they can't fly on A300's or 767's).
#4. Am I missing another obvious shipping solution? Another airline? A reptile shipping company I don't know about (Ship My Reptiles doesn't ship to Hawaii)? I am discouraged and distressed, and I really want to make this heavenly opportunity happen safely and successfully for my pair. Thanks in advance for advice/knowledge.





My pair are mature and my girl is + - about 20 lbs, and she urinates in a cardboard box and starts tearing it up during vet visits. I said there is no way they can travel in cardboard.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
@Tom @Kapidolo Farms

If it's sort of an overnight thing, I think Delta Dash wants animals in approved animal carriers - like crates.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
The plastic dog crates is what I used. I would only put one tortoise to a crate. I used hay as a substrate.
@Tom may be able to help further.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
I don't ship to HI either because I know its difficult and fraught with problems. I ship all sorts of animals regularly and you always get a different answer from whoever you talk to. I try to just make it happen at the counter, and it usually does. Most f those people have no idea what they are doing and really don't care. YOU can tell them how it works, and most of them will go along with it.

Lately I've been having larger tortoises shipped to me and I've been shipping in plastic dog crates with bedding in the bottom. Hasn't been a problem with Delta or United.

BIG PIECE OF ADVICE: ONLY USE A DIRECT FLIGHT. No layovers. No Montana. No Utah. DIRECT flight only. They leave your hands at the cargo terminal and arrive directly at the receiving cargo terminal on the other end for pick up by your buyer six hours later. If that can't be done for some reason, then don't ship them to HI.
 

Pastel Tortie

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
4,264
Location (City and/or State)
North Florida
Is there a reason for needing to ship in July? If given the option, I would try to ship around the beginning of October instead.

I completely agree with @Tom about a DIRECT FLIGHT ONLY. Plan on driving to the nearest airport with a direct flight to Hawaii that will accept tortoises. That way, if there's a snag, you and the tortoises are there together, and you only have to worry about ONE flight.

When my ex and I moved back to Florida from the UK (many years ago now), a couple young Cavalier King Charles Spaniel females moved with us. We normally flew from Manchester, UK to Atlanta, then down to Florida, via Delta all the way. On that final flight, however, we had to change pretty much everything. Direct flight to Orlando so we didn't have any layovers. Delta didn't fly directly from Manchester to Orlando, so we had to fly on a different airline, out of a different airport. Had to drive additional hours to fly out of Gatwick instead of Manchester. Stayed overnight in a hotel near the airport with the dogs. We flew out October 1, because they wouldn't fly animals before then (seasonal temperature restrictions). When we finally got to the counter to check in, they almost wouldn't accept the girls because we had two small dogs in one large carrier. Nowhere in any written or verbal guidance anywhere had it said that they couldn't. The person at the counter finally said they could fly in the same carrier together IF they were litter mates. "They're SISTERS," I said. They accepted that, and we all flew to Orlando.

My definition of "sisters" was different from theirs, but fortunately they didn't question what definition I was using.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
IThe person at the counter finally said they could fly in the same carrier together IF they were litter mates.

This is exactly the kind of thing that infuriates me about these airlines and their policies...

WTH difference does it make if they are siblings? What "consulting firm" did the airline pay millions of dollars to to tell them this non-sense.

I've been flying all over the world with dogs for two decades. Last time I left Chicago I got a lecture from a teenage boy about how to transport dogs. I asked him how long he'd been at this job? "Two weeks." I let him speak because he was letting me fly home. If I'd made him mad, he could have simply said no. It shouldn't be that way. Its maddening, I tell ya'!
 

normav

New Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
17
@Tom @Kapidolo Farms

If it's sort of an overnight thing, I think Delta Dash wants animals in approved animal carriers - like crates.
This is part of the thing that terrifies me. Delta doesn't seem to have the answers. The people on the phone are doing their job, but I think they are in a call center and have never seen a live animal carrier go through a gate onto a plane. Also, Delta no longer allows live animals to go DASH. :-(
 

normav

New Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
17
I don't ship to HI either because I know its difficult and fraught with problems. I ship all sorts of animals regularly and you always get a different answer from whoever you talk to. I try to just make it happen at the counter, and it usually does. Most f those people have no idea what they are doing and really don't care. YOU can tell them how it works, and most of them will go along with it.

Lately I've been having larger tortoises shipped to me and I've been shipping in plastic dog crates with bedding in the bottom. Hasn't been a problem with Delta or United.

BIG PIECE OF ADVICE: ONLY USE A DIRECT FLIGHT. No layovers. No Montana. No Utah. DIRECT flight only. They leave your hands at the cargo terminal and arrive directly at the receiving cargo terminal on the other end for pick up by your buyer six hours later. If that can't be done for some reason, then don't ship them to HI.
Unfortunately, this sounds like the best way to handle it. Delta does not allow anyone to pick up the tortoises and keep them for the overnight-once they are booked through, they remain in Delta custody. How do you feel about another airline? Anyone else use United or whatever?
Also, when you say plastic dog crates, do you mean the box style that has the metal door in front (the tortoise can see out) or the box style with hinges where the plastic top closes over the bottom of the box? Thanks.
 

normav

New Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
17
Is there a reason for needing to ship in July? If given the option, I would try to ship around the beginning of October instead.

I completely agree with @Tom about a DIRECT FLIGHT ONLY. Plan on driving to the nearest airport with a direct flight to Hawaii that will accept tortoises. That way, if there's a snag, you and the tortoises are there together, and you only have to worry about ONE flight.

When my ex and I moved back to Florida from the UK (many years ago now), a couple young Cavalier King Charles Spaniel females moved with us. We normally flew from Manchester, UK to Atlanta, then down to Florida, via Delta all the way. On that final flight, however, we had to change pretty much everything. Direct flight to Orlando so we didn't have any layovers. Delta didn't fly directly from Manchester to Orlando, so we had to fly on a different airline, out of a different airport. Had to drive additional hours to fly out of Gatwick instead of Manchester. Stayed overnight in a hotel near the airport with the dogs. We flew out October 1, because they wouldn't fly animals before then (seasonal temperature restrictions). When we finally got to the counter to check in, they almost wouldn't accept the girls because we had two small dogs in one large carrier. Nowhere in any written or verbal guidance anywhere had it said that they couldn't. The person at the counter finally said they could fly in the same carrier together IF they were litter mates. "They're SISTERS," I said. They accepted that, and we all flew to Orlando.

My definition of "sisters" was different from theirs, but fortunately they didn't question what definition I was using.
I have also had a dog ship story in the past, and it is adding to my angst. I tried to ship my Boston quick flight to Omaha from Bismarck, and they wouldn't accept her because she had to "lower her head when she walked into her kennel." It was the kennel she slept in at night, she could stand up and turn around in it no trouble, but they wouldn't take her. These uncertainties are what makes me so nervous for my tortoises. :-(
 

normav

New Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
17
The plastic dog crates is what I used. I would only put one tortoise to a crate. I used hay as a substrate.
@Tom may be able to help further.
Do you mean the plastic crate with the metal door, or the plastic crate with the hinges on the back where the top shuts over the bottom? Thanks.
 

normav

New Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
17
I don't ship to HI either because I know its difficult and fraught with problems. I ship all sorts of animals regularly and you always get a different answer from whoever you talk to. I try to just make it happen at the counter, and it usually does. Most f those people have no idea what they are doing and really don't care. YOU can tell them how it works, and most of them will go along with it.

Lately I've been having larger tortoises shipped to me and I've been shipping in plastic dog crates with bedding in the bottom. Hasn't been a problem with Delta or United.

BIG PIECE OF ADVICE: ONLY USE A DIRECT FLIGHT. No layovers. No Montana. No Utah. DIRECT flight only. They leave your hands at the cargo terminal and arrive directly at the receiving cargo terminal on the other end for pick up by your buyer six hours later. If that can't be done for some reason, then don't ship them to HI.
I reread your post. I will also call United.
 

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
19,695
Location (City and/or State)
CA
Sadly with airlines your answer will depend on who is answering the phone that day. No set policy!
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Also, when you say plastic dog crates, do you mean the box style that has the metal door in front (the tortoise can see out) or the box style with hinges where the plastic top closes over the bottom of the box? Thanks.

Plastic dog crate where the two halves are joined together with the little bolts and plastic nuts and a metal door in front that you squeeze the pins together to open. Like this:
120136_MAIN._AC_SL400_V1554383868_.jpg

I've never heard of the other type you are asking about. The type in the pic is what they are used to seeing, they are airline approved, and if you act like you know what you are doing and you do this all the time, they will usually believe you. Sometimes they want to drill holes in your crate and zip tie the door in place. I let them.
 

normav

New Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
17
Plastic dog crate where the two halves are joined together with the little bolts and plastic nuts and a metal door in front that you squeeze the pins together to open. Like this:
View attachment 275561

I've never heard of the other type you are asking about. The type in the pic is what they are used to seeing, they are airline approved, and if you act like you know what you are doing and you do this all the time, they will usually believe you. Sometimes they want to drill holes in your crate and zip tie the door in place. I let them.
This is nowhere in the IATA instructions that Delta sent me, for reptiles anyway. It's a lot easier for me than making a wooden crate. Did you use hay as the substrate? I don't want to use anything that will spew out and get them rejected at the gate. Thanks.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
This is nowhere in the IATA instructions that Delta sent me, for reptiles anyway. It's a lot easier for me than making a wooden crate. Did you use hay as the substrate? I don't want to use anything that will spew out and get them rejected at the gate. Thanks.
Yes. I used Bermuda or orchard grass hay.

Some of these people at the counter have never seen a reptile shipped and have no idea what to do. Or they may have seen a snake or lizard in a bag inside a styrofoam lined cardboard box, but they've never seen a large tortoise shipped.

Once I had received a shipping quote of $180 when I made the reservation to ship an adult leopard, and at drop off, the person behind the counter said it was done wrong, re-did it, and I was only charged $77. It all depends on the person at the counter. Once the package is received and under way you can usually relax.

The big unknown in this for me is what happens on the other end when they receive a live animal in HI. Quarantine is a big deal over there and the rules are very restrictive about any live animal coming in. And for good reason.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
This is nowhere in the IATA instructions that Delta sent me, for reptiles anyway. It's a lot easier for me than making a wooden crate. Did you use hay as the substrate? I don't want to use anything that will spew out and get them rejected at the gate. Thanks.
I received a tortoise from Tom. She was in a dog crate like in Tom's picture and had hay as the substrate.
I then had too ship 3 tortoises to Texas. I used the same style of dog crate. One for each tortoise and appropriately sized. I also used hay for the substrate. I zip tied the doors closed for added safety once I got them to the airport incase they needed to inspect the crate. Be sure to print out the appropriate labeling for the crate and label all sides and top with a sticker or taped on label that says "live animal" "this side up" with an up arrow.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
The big unknown in this for me is what happens on the other end when they receive a live animal in HI. Quarantine is a big deal over there and the rules are very restrictive about any live animal coming in. And for good reason.

This is a very good point. Be sure to check with Hawaii officials (not airline officials) if it's ok to ship in a tortoise or two. They are very protective of their state and don't allow animals freely. When my grand daughter's husband was stationed in Hawaii she wanted to bring her little Corgi with her when she moved there to join him. They told her he would have to be in quarantine for 6 months. Needless to say, he stayed with her parents for the duration.
 

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
19,695
Location (City and/or State)
CA
Go to Hawaii expect a 6 month quaratine.
 
Top