jeff kushner
Well-Known Member
As we began talking of replacing Kerry's 165,000 mile Rogue a few months ago we began to talk about the goal of our next car would be as well and wants vs needs.
We have my Expedition, a 2 seater and her Rogue and none of them has ever been in a repair shop so we have no needs, just wants. I think that it is important to recognize the difference.
We are both retired so we have no need for a commuter car.
We love going places.....days trips like a lot of our friends here take and we are both quite liable to decide on a whim.....ROAD TRIP for 1500 miles. We like nature and like being able to go anywhere but we aren't "Trek" people.....I want it soft and cushy now. We do have lots of play toys though and I like my belongings inside my vehicle, not strapped to the rear for others to shop for power packs, sprung bike seats etc. I have not figured out how to insert a 17' canoe but we're working on a solution. LOL
So like half the population we set out to find a midsized SUV that rode like a Cadillac and had the price tag of a washing machine.
Jeff got "reeducated" during this time.
Wow, the list of driving "protection" programs while driving is amazing today. How do we still get into accidents? They also use power differently. I recently learned this from Z who mentioned in another thread that cars often come with 2 batteries, one of very expensive origin now. I banged out some research and sure enough, the conditioning and learning procedure he described, is a "thing"...an expensive "thing".
Other neat stuff...like the "mild hybrids" that no one tells you that you are buying. Manufactures now realize that most not all consumers on the East coast have little desire for anything "electric" so they don't even bother to mention it to their customers. The impact is very good as long as the "starter, generator" device doesn't fail. It's going to be expensive if it does.
(Mild hybrids, also called 48-volt mild-hybrid systems, are the least electrified version of hybrid powertrains. Designs vary from model to model, but the basic concept and construction are the same. A small electric motor, which can be called an integrated starter generator (ISG), is connected to the engine and works in tandem with the internal combustion unit to provide extra power for acceleration.)
Anyone looking at cars and wonder how the new car dealer is making his money today?? Of course not, we all "don't like them much" do we? Most folks would rather go to the Dentist than a car dealer but fear not....their world changed too and it didn't help them either! We have all seen the steep rise in the cost of procuring one of these machines so for me, understanding the "layout" of their land is important.
It is an interesting time in the auto world these days. The landscape is very different and will look and feel different to you if you haven't looked at new ones in 7-8 years. The world changed while we were busy with covid.
In the "Before time";
Dealers had long 20 point margins surrounded by lots of cozy accessory warmers to keep their profits up.
I last bought a '17 Expedition in Nov '16. My truck is well appointed and pretty much has everything that we need but it's a truck, It listed for 65K and I paid 53.9 out the door including Md's 6% tax......I got nearly 16K off that list price. It wasn't an easy negotiation and it included leaving and coming back.....but we got it done in an evening.
They threw everything they had that they could possibly sell me of course. They asked so many questions of do you want different wheels and other add on's that at one point I asked if we could include the planters from the front door to the dealership.....it was fun but tough. (This was the exception I learned upon joining their forum....most were getting 5-7K off list. That's it so if you only got 2k off your car today, you are doing ok. I'm not trying to upset anyone who has already put up their savings to procure one of these intensely expensive vehicles)
Today.....very different world, new pricing structures, new revenue streams with service policies and "warranty gimmicks". The dealer margins have been pulled back, WAAAY back. I'm guessing their margins excluding the financing games are in the range of 5-7 points now and yes, they are every bit as dishonest and brutal as they always were, rest assured.
We had fun with this.....
Kerry tested 12 different models over the past week or so and narrowed it down to 3. It's been a process since my shoulder has been hurting so much. Of course riding in a car hurts like heck so we would drive 2 or 3 at a time. I was just in too much misery to keep going.....hence the 2 week process to drive them. One of the 3 we liked has a model-wide open "Park Outside" recall by the Manufacturer(WTF????). That leaves 2.....the Nissan and the nicer version at Infinity.
Salespeople;
We did have a couple of super sales folks but out of 12, 2 were tops and were very good, 2 were ok, all the rest BRAND NEW to selling cars and most of them had been in the back seats looking at their phones while trying not to let me see on the test drives....as they read the various features from a webpage. LMAO.
They knew nothing of the actual cars. Most of them could not quote me their best interest rate.....they had to "go talk to the man" to get that information. As a group, they don't seem as talented or tough b/c they are all simply doing the bidding of the "money guy" in their offices. It's a pretty sketchy setup to me but we'll all get to watch how it shakes out for them.
We go to Annapolis yesterday so I can drive the final 3 since I haven't driven any of them yet.....palisade, pathfinder, qx60 back to back to back so we can decide.
OK, anyone with a brain knows how this goes down.....
Palisade is nice, lowest price, very nice ride, a ton of bells and whistles and an obvious value.
Pathfinder(which was the big surprise horse in the race) is a "drivers car" in comparison to the Palisade with comparable power and a little nosier but the ride is exactly like my truck which isn't a bad thing but it's still a duplicate of what we have. Maybe that's why it felt so familiar to me?
QX60....very nice.....very nice ride, same engine as the pathfinder so again the power was comparable but the ride was a on a different level of car. Certainly not as nice as new Mercedes or BMWs but one that exceeded it's own cost w/o driving the cost to 70-80K. ....also not such a great looking car to me(Kerry loves it) but I own a Vstrom motorcycle made by Suzuki......it's obvious I can handle "ugly". LOL
I think we made up our collective mind......then it happened.....the Storm out!
We'll see but I'm guessing that Javier@ Infinity went in to get a piece of his Sales Manager after we left We left when they led with an interest rate DOUBLE their best 1.9% rate...I was caught off-guard and instead of "absorbing and deferring" I got offended and I got very angry and lit the kid up.....then I calmed and told him that none of this was his fault at all...but he just got screwed by his boss.
The problem I have is I'm very irrational when hurt.....I was at the end of my ability to control it and that's when they choose to "screw me" in my mind. That didn't go well for any of us when we left.
Of course he was trying to "fix it" and we got lots of texts after we left of why the "new manager" didn't know the rates but we all know the truth here and I cannot give them another chance AFTER they showed their hand.....that would be like saying "screw me twice" and we aren't doing that. We didn't respond to the texts, no point was there?
The bad thing is that they have the exact car Kerry loves......but cars are like pencils...they always make more.
Hmmmm, there's one in North Carolina......
Kerry....road trip?
We have my Expedition, a 2 seater and her Rogue and none of them has ever been in a repair shop so we have no needs, just wants. I think that it is important to recognize the difference.
We are both retired so we have no need for a commuter car.
We love going places.....days trips like a lot of our friends here take and we are both quite liable to decide on a whim.....ROAD TRIP for 1500 miles. We like nature and like being able to go anywhere but we aren't "Trek" people.....I want it soft and cushy now. We do have lots of play toys though and I like my belongings inside my vehicle, not strapped to the rear for others to shop for power packs, sprung bike seats etc. I have not figured out how to insert a 17' canoe but we're working on a solution. LOL
So like half the population we set out to find a midsized SUV that rode like a Cadillac and had the price tag of a washing machine.
Jeff got "reeducated" during this time.
Wow, the list of driving "protection" programs while driving is amazing today. How do we still get into accidents? They also use power differently. I recently learned this from Z who mentioned in another thread that cars often come with 2 batteries, one of very expensive origin now. I banged out some research and sure enough, the conditioning and learning procedure he described, is a "thing"...an expensive "thing".
Other neat stuff...like the "mild hybrids" that no one tells you that you are buying. Manufactures now realize that most not all consumers on the East coast have little desire for anything "electric" so they don't even bother to mention it to their customers. The impact is very good as long as the "starter, generator" device doesn't fail. It's going to be expensive if it does.
(Mild hybrids, also called 48-volt mild-hybrid systems, are the least electrified version of hybrid powertrains. Designs vary from model to model, but the basic concept and construction are the same. A small electric motor, which can be called an integrated starter generator (ISG), is connected to the engine and works in tandem with the internal combustion unit to provide extra power for acceleration.)
Anyone looking at cars and wonder how the new car dealer is making his money today?? Of course not, we all "don't like them much" do we? Most folks would rather go to the Dentist than a car dealer but fear not....their world changed too and it didn't help them either! We have all seen the steep rise in the cost of procuring one of these machines so for me, understanding the "layout" of their land is important.
It is an interesting time in the auto world these days. The landscape is very different and will look and feel different to you if you haven't looked at new ones in 7-8 years. The world changed while we were busy with covid.
In the "Before time";
Dealers had long 20 point margins surrounded by lots of cozy accessory warmers to keep their profits up.
I last bought a '17 Expedition in Nov '16. My truck is well appointed and pretty much has everything that we need but it's a truck, It listed for 65K and I paid 53.9 out the door including Md's 6% tax......I got nearly 16K off that list price. It wasn't an easy negotiation and it included leaving and coming back.....but we got it done in an evening.
They threw everything they had that they could possibly sell me of course. They asked so many questions of do you want different wheels and other add on's that at one point I asked if we could include the planters from the front door to the dealership.....it was fun but tough. (This was the exception I learned upon joining their forum....most were getting 5-7K off list. That's it so if you only got 2k off your car today, you are doing ok. I'm not trying to upset anyone who has already put up their savings to procure one of these intensely expensive vehicles)
Today.....very different world, new pricing structures, new revenue streams with service policies and "warranty gimmicks". The dealer margins have been pulled back, WAAAY back. I'm guessing their margins excluding the financing games are in the range of 5-7 points now and yes, they are every bit as dishonest and brutal as they always were, rest assured.
We had fun with this.....
Kerry tested 12 different models over the past week or so and narrowed it down to 3. It's been a process since my shoulder has been hurting so much. Of course riding in a car hurts like heck so we would drive 2 or 3 at a time. I was just in too much misery to keep going.....hence the 2 week process to drive them. One of the 3 we liked has a model-wide open "Park Outside" recall by the Manufacturer(WTF????). That leaves 2.....the Nissan and the nicer version at Infinity.
Salespeople;
We did have a couple of super sales folks but out of 12, 2 were tops and were very good, 2 were ok, all the rest BRAND NEW to selling cars and most of them had been in the back seats looking at their phones while trying not to let me see on the test drives....as they read the various features from a webpage. LMAO.
They knew nothing of the actual cars. Most of them could not quote me their best interest rate.....they had to "go talk to the man" to get that information. As a group, they don't seem as talented or tough b/c they are all simply doing the bidding of the "money guy" in their offices. It's a pretty sketchy setup to me but we'll all get to watch how it shakes out for them.
We go to Annapolis yesterday so I can drive the final 3 since I haven't driven any of them yet.....palisade, pathfinder, qx60 back to back to back so we can decide.
OK, anyone with a brain knows how this goes down.....
Palisade is nice, lowest price, very nice ride, a ton of bells and whistles and an obvious value.
Pathfinder(which was the big surprise horse in the race) is a "drivers car" in comparison to the Palisade with comparable power and a little nosier but the ride is exactly like my truck which isn't a bad thing but it's still a duplicate of what we have. Maybe that's why it felt so familiar to me?
QX60....very nice.....very nice ride, same engine as the pathfinder so again the power was comparable but the ride was a on a different level of car. Certainly not as nice as new Mercedes or BMWs but one that exceeded it's own cost w/o driving the cost to 70-80K. ....also not such a great looking car to me(Kerry loves it) but I own a Vstrom motorcycle made by Suzuki......it's obvious I can handle "ugly". LOL
I think we made up our collective mind......then it happened.....the Storm out!
We'll see but I'm guessing that Javier@ Infinity went in to get a piece of his Sales Manager after we left We left when they led with an interest rate DOUBLE their best 1.9% rate...I was caught off-guard and instead of "absorbing and deferring" I got offended and I got very angry and lit the kid up.....then I calmed and told him that none of this was his fault at all...but he just got screwed by his boss.
The problem I have is I'm very irrational when hurt.....I was at the end of my ability to control it and that's when they choose to "screw me" in my mind. That didn't go well for any of us when we left.
Of course he was trying to "fix it" and we got lots of texts after we left of why the "new manager" didn't know the rates but we all know the truth here and I cannot give them another chance AFTER they showed their hand.....that would be like saying "screw me twice" and we aren't doing that. We didn't respond to the texts, no point was there?
The bad thing is that they have the exact car Kerry loves......but cars are like pencils...they always make more.
Hmmmm, there's one in North Carolina......
Kerry....road trip?
