New owner :) hello.

[Mochii]

Hello!

So I have a Sulcata hatchling that joined us today. The baby is really small, but is active and curious. I have been researching about questions that I had and somehow ended up with more questions. Could you please help out? Thank you

Before I go on with my question, this is our set up right now. The baby has a tortoise table 27.5 x 14.125 x 11.375. It has hay as its substrate. We left the top open and have the uvb light that goes across it. We do have a basking light of 50 watts as well. It is placed above the uvb light and shines to one side.

So here are the questions:
1) I came onto this forum to look for the temperatures. The direct basking light temperature goes up to about 100F and overall on the cooling side is about 80F. We were concerned about fire hazard because of the hay and the wood. The basking light also shines above the uvb light. Some said that 100F and 80F is okay but some sites say it should be in low 90s for basking. I'm worried not only about fire hazard but if it will dry out my tortoise.

2) And about soaking. Is it ever bad to soak too often when they're hatchlings? He drinks a lot which I figured through reading that it's okay. ANd how do you keep the water warm? I noticed that it gets cool very fast because its shallow. Do I just change it every 3-4 minutes?

3) The substrate. We researched before we bought our stuff and it said hay is okay. We also went to a turtle & tortoise show and asked them questions. The guy with sulcata said that it eats the hay as wlel so it's good for them. But I found out that my hatchling cannot eat hay because it is too young. Then is it bad to have the substrate as hay? I notice that many people used other substrate to keep them moist. Is soaking not enough?

4) Also for food. Is produce from the grocery store okay? Flowers from bushes outside okay? How should we obtain them? At first we thought hay should be enough but not quite yet. How do you transition to hay? ANd when?

Thank you so much.

- Mochii.

 

[spring pace]

welcome mochii and congrats on your new hatchling sulcata. your sulcata needs the high temps but it should be only on one side of the tort table so it can get away from direct light if it needs to. the substrate should be a 50/50 coir/sand mixture kept slightly damp for humidity (check every day at the lower levels and always add extra water under the lights) yes always keep the water warm for soaking, if that means changing it every few minutes then thats what you have to do. give your tort hay right from the beginning. the best i found at regular pet stores is the oxbow brand botanical hay. it smells great, very soft and has lots of good stuff in it. you will need to cut it smaller and soak it for a few minutes before adding it into the salad which should consist of a dandelions, turnip greens, kale, radiccio, endive (combo can vary) along w/ grasses and weeds. peoples gardens are a great resource too. mulberry leaves, grape leaves, hibiscus leaves and flowers, rose petals, petunias just to name a few. well washed baby greens salad is also good to mix in. for treats and only given every couple of weeks can be watermelon, nopales and pumpkin in season. you want its poop to look like a cigar w/ lots of fiber kinda like a horse or cow, not like a dog or cat. babies tend to flip themselves over a lot, its their curiosity about everything, keep everything on the ground smooth especially under the lights so theres less chance of flipping and dehydrating. give it a hide, something small so it fits in just right away from the heat. i used a piece of cardboard folded to look like a cave. since your tort likes to drink water, a shallow dish away from the heat is also good. theres a great seed mix sold only on line at carolinapetsupply.com thats good to start growing. their shipping is expensive so i would also suggest you getting TNT (total nutrition for torts) its a powder sprinkled on the food 3xs a week and a cuttlebone for calcium ( it may not try it immediately or even look at it for weeks, but dont take it out of the enclosure, leave it as part of the scenery. cuttle bone is the safe way to introduce calcium into the diet w/o overload). enjoy your new little one. what name did you pick? smiles galileo (sulcata) and spring

 

[tortoisenerd]

Welcome to the forum Mochii! Congrats on the little one! I agree with Spring and have the following to add.

I place the water in the enclosure between the coldest and warmest area, that way the water stays a little warmer (the water will be cooler than the air temperature no matter what you do), but it's not under the heat source directly in case the tort flips over. If you figure out the tort goes in the water daily on its own, you can decide if you still want to soak or not. It I don't see my hatchling drink each day (I have a tortoise webcam so it helps), I will soak him. Once he's a year old I can cut back to a few days a week if needed. Greens from the grocery store are ok. You want the most nutritious you can get (like spring mix and the things Spring listed, not just romaine for example). You also want organic. Everything from the garden must be without pesticides/fertilizers. Also check on some of the online lists that it is safe. For example, tomato leaves are toxic.

It's not that babies cannot eat hay when young, but typically they will not. The earlier you introduce small amounts into the diet the better though. If it is soft and moist they are more likely to try it; I like Spring's instructions.

I give pure calcium powder to my hatchling daily by using a salt shaker of it on his food. I think they need that, and cuttlebone is not enough. It's a personal choice though, but from my reading I find that you can't really overdo the calcium as you could D3. Do your own reading and see what you think. Its best to make an educated decision on your own instead of listening to just one or two opinions.

Remember that they eat weeds and grasses in the wild, so try to mimic that as much as you can. Someone here said that they don't know how Sulcatas last as babies in the wild because they don't seem to want to eat anything! lol

I really agree that you should try a moist substrate. This can really make a big difference for preventing pyramiding--adding in humidity at the substrate level. This is a more recent finding so you may not hear it from every owner, or on all care sheets. Some people think Sulcata=desert-dry. In fact, they spend more time in their burrows than out in the sun. They poo and pee in the burrow (gross!) and it brings up the humidity, which keeps their shell growth smooth. Next to letting the sulcata burrow in your backyard at a young age, although having them in the yard once they are older is a good idea, having a moist substrate is any easy fix.

We'd love to see tortoise and enclosure pictures!

100 is probably ok as long as basking spots in the 90s are also available. Remember that you probably measured this at the substrate, and your tort's shell is a little above this. As they get bigger you probably don't want it quite so hot. Hatchlings like it a little warmer than adults, so that is why I say it's ok for now. How is your heat/light set up (stand, etc)? Can't you just raise it a little bit to lower the temperature? I would worry more that the low temperature may be a little warm. In my opinion you probably want a spot in the 70s and not over 80 as a low available at all times. They thermoregulate and will move around to the temperature they want at the time. By raising the heat to lower the temperatures all around, this should be about right. Maybe 95 as a high and 78 as a low. Be careful to check the enclosure temperatures as the ambient room temperature changes, such as with the seasons. It can quickly warm up or cool down in the enclosure when the room temperature changes. I have to adjust my heat/light level on a regular basis. That is why I use a lamp stand so I can raise and lower the bulb.

I will change the water once as I soak my tort for maybe 10 minutes. I will take him out if he is restless as I don't want it to be a stressful experience. Some people say the tort will absorb some water even if they don't drink it. I started to put baby bath warm water in my tort's enclosure water dish, and then place him in. When he gets out then that's it. It is not stressful at all for him as he can get out when he pleases. Since this is the dish he is used to, I actually find him sitting in there for 10-15 minutes on his own accord sometimes! Having a dish that the tort can easily access and it a good water temperature for them is important. With a tiny hatchling it is tough to get a dish that they can get in and out of easily. Let us know if your tort seems to have trouble with what you have in there now, and I'll have some suggestions. I went through about 6 dishes to find one that works for my tort and now he chills in there a lot when he used to never use it.

The dry substrate and hot temperatures can quickly dry out a tort, even with daily soaking. I moisten food; this helps a little. Some say torts are on "slow bake" in captivity, and that is why we need to soak them, even though they may not have regular access to water in the wild. I agree. The moist substrate, water available, and moist food seems to help. You have to keep them warm though.

Let us know if this answered the questions you listed. Best wishes!

 

[Mochii]

Thank you so much! You answered a lot of my questions. Now i have more! Marley is the name of our tortoise.

As for food, we read somewhere about damping the hay and mixing it a little with fresh produce to encourage him to eat hay as young. So I think we're going to try that. I bought him organic baby lettuce from the market yesterday when there was no reply. I realized that he doesn't eat it right away.. and this morning, he ate some that were sort of not fresh but a little dry. Is that okay? Will they always not eat when food first comes in?

I have noticed that Marley likes to go into his water bowl and just sit there. I placed the bowl under the basking light before because I didn't want him to dry out in case it was too hot. So he just goes in there and chill. I moved it now to the middle zone between hot and cool. But he does that often, is that normal? Maybe he likes water. But it must be not warm when he goes in. Is that okay?

Marley also attempts to "climb" the wall. I read at sulcata station that I should place some things that he could climb so he won't be bored but I also read that it's not good to have them when they're hatchlins in case they flip over and dry out. How can i keep Marley entertained and happy?

I'm going to look into the substrate more and probably change it. I want the best for my little guy

As for temperature, we have a non-digital thermometer. Is that not accurate enough? Maybe the temperature Im giving you is not exact.. I saw pictures of other people's thermometers and they were all digital.

And he has two "houses". One is a tuppeware that has been darkened to make the inside dark and cozy. I placed damp paper towels in there to make it a bit humid (I did this for my leopard gecko so I tried it out). I placed this near the hot zone. And his second house is a tissue box at the cool end. I placed him in there yesterday and he knocked out. THen this morning he was at the other side with the food and he was soaking on his own later. Does he know that he has houses? Do they always sleep in there (hahah it's kind of a funny question.. but I wonder!) or do they just sleep outside? Last night was his first night with us and he fell asleep in the water while soaking so I took him out. He knocked out on my hand (The cutest thing ever!!!!). I guess he was pretty tired from all the moving around.

Thank you so much!

- Mochii.

 

[tortoisenerd]

It is ok if they eat the dried food. I feed my tort once a day. If you figure out when your tort likes to eat (mine likes to wake up in the late morning, bask a little, then eat, but I put food out before I leave for work), you can put food out then. Or, you can just feed it when it's a good time for you and either it will get the dried out food or learn to get up earlier! When you first get a tort it won't yet have a routine until it gets settled in. Some people like to have food available at all times for hatchlings, some just feed the once or twice a day. I feed once a day, and if the tort is still awake when I get home and no food is left, I feed a snack. Usually my tort sleeps A LOT as a baby so I don't see him awake when I leave for work nor when I get home!

If the tort spends a lot a lot of time in there it could mean something is wrong, but if it just goes in once or twice a day for 10 minutes that is good! Most torts don't like water too much and you have to "force" soak them. If Marley gets water on his own in my opinion you don't need to soak out of the enclosure. Marley may have not had enough water in his previous home. As long as he's getting in there on his own accord the water temperature doesn't matter too much. He will get out when cold. I imagine he goes and basks after getting out of the water? It's when you soak out of the enclosure in a container the tort can't get out of is when you have to worry about water temperature. I even have a laser thermometer (PE1, $25 on Ebay) so that I can take the enclosure temperatures as well as the water temperature, so I know what's going on.

The more cage furnishings you have (like hides, plants, things to walk on and around and over, etc) the more entertained they will be. In captivity though, some torts just will spend a lot of time trying to get out. If they can see out, they will want out. The walls sound high enough and the table is big enough for now (you will soon need to give him more space though). Can you provide pictures? I have fake plants and hides in several areas for my tort to spend time climbing on and under. Once you get a feel for the risk your tort is at for flipping (some are much more prone than others), you can decide how much is safe to put in there. Also, more torts will climb the walls at first as they test the boundary of the enclosure before they settle in. Normal. There is only so much you can do. There life revolves around basking, eating, etc. The next best thing is to give them a lot of space to roam. I always say to give as large of an enclosure as you can, as long as you can increase the size as they grow. You can think about having a larger enclosure. Do you have a yard for when he gets huge? What are your plans?

I recommend spending the money and getting an accurate thermometer. I always have thought my thermometer and water dish were the best investments I made for my tort's care. What kind of thermometer are you using? Like a human mercury thermometer or something? I like this one: http://www.amainhobbies.com/product.../10102/n/Pro-Exotics-PE-1-Temp-Gun-Tempguncom Instant accurate readings. It has a multitude of uses other than torts too. My vet recommended it. I can even take his shell temperature to keep an eye on how warm he is, lol.

I would worry about the damp paper towels unless it is the warm hide (very near the heat source) because cold+damp is bad but warm+damp is good. How often do you have to replace them? Daily? Some people use a moist sponge attached to the top of a hide. That stays moist longer. You can put a hole in the tupperware and use a plastic twist tie.

Some torts don't like houses. Mine never used them so I now have only fake plants and a hay pile under the heat (I used aspen). I also kept the half log in there more for climbing on than hidding under. Give it time. Sometimes they either don't like the type of hide, or the placement of it. Describe to me where the tort spends most of its time--they type of area, and the temperature of it. That will give you a clue what the tort likes. For example, my tort spends a lot of his day under a pile of timothy hay where it is about 85 degrees. Not all torts sleep in a hide. Mine digs a burrow. What is yours doing?

I would actually worry if he was falling asleep in the water while soaking. Was it nodding off napping, or actually sleeping in the water? How much time is he in the water vs. out of the water?

Have you taken him to the vet? Not to scare you, but there is something called hatchling failure to thrive syndrome where one of the symptoms is spending a lot of time in water, including falling asleep in there. It is related to metabolic bone disease and includes dehydration, which is why they spend the time in the water excessively. Is he eating? How soft is the shell? Age of the tort? Eyes open and alert? How active is he? You say he's moving around, but also falling asleep in the water so I'm confused. Was he getting daily calcium at his last home?

http://www.sulcata-station.org/hatchfail.html
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-5510.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~fridjian/id13.html

It's really hard to figure out what is going on just by reading what someone posts, so if you can send us some pictures and more information that would be helpful. I want to make sure I am not overreacting to your statement about falling asleep in the water! I just worry because hatchlings are so fragile, and by the time they show outward symptoms many times it is too late. nevertheless, it's good to be informed about potential health problems so you can spot something early, even if he;s perfectly healthy right now.

Best wishes.

 

[Mochii]

According to the breeder, Marley is about a week or less. He was one of the smaller ones out of the hatchlings we saw and possibly is only four-five days old. I've been up and been observing and watching him for 2.5 hours now. After I read your previous posts, I moved the water bowl to the middle and he's not going into it as often. Perhaps he went in there because he wanted to bask and the bowl was in the way. He hasn't stepped into his houses voluntarily yet. His shell is not completely hard like the ones that were full grown but how hard is it supposed to be when they were young?

He doesn't fall asleep in the water bowl when he goes in on his own. He fell asleep last night (he had his eyes closed) when I placed him in for his soaking. I think he was more nodding off napping. WHen I placed him in his house though, he was pretty much gone for the rest of the night after that. But he was up before us so I don't know how early he got up.

I don't have any plants in there yet because his substrate was hay. But it sounds like a good idea to place plants in there after I change the substrate. It'll give natural humidity as well right? Then do I change it to hay when he grows older? The tortoise man we saw at the tortoise show told us that he has his tortoises in the hay. So do we never put substrate as hay?

We read sulcata-station (which was a great help ) and have been reading topics of other new owners like me on the forums so thank you!

And he's with me in the apartment for now but in a year I'm going back home where we have a big yard. I plan to put him out when I get back to LA. If he grows too big in a year, I'll probably get a larger enclosure for him until we go back. I also want to take him out so he can see the sun but the breeder told us not to place him under direct sunlight because it is much too young. When can I take him out?

Oh haha he fell asleep as I wrote this. He's not in the water but near the warm side. Will he dry out if he sleeps at the warm area? He will wake up and move if it gets too hot for him right?

I took some pictures.

The last one is Marley being soaked for the first time with us! He peed in there
I tilted the basking light to prevent it from overeating the place. I can't raise it any higher than that, so I was thinking perhaps I shoudl get smaller watt (this one is 50watt)? This is his second day here.. so I'm sure there are changes that needs to be made for his healthier life. Thanks!

Thanks Tortoisenerd!

- Mochii & Marley (oh hey, M&M! haha)

 

[tortoisenerd]

He's less than a week old? Wow! Honestly I think the breeder is irresponsible. I have never heard of someone taking home a tort less than a month old, and usually closer to two months old. Make sure they are healthy, eating, etc. At his age yes the shell will be very very soft. He might even have a yoke sac remnant and egg tooth? At that age they will sleep even more than a few month old hatchling, but I still wouldn't expect them to sleep in the water dish. That is good you moved it so there is room to bask.

If you put in real plants you probably want them in pots, and yes that would help with humidity. I have fake plants (plastic from Michael's craft store) that I like as I have a black thumb. Trevor only tried to nibble them once, and quickly discovered they are not food.

I don't know anyone on this forum who recommends hay for hatchlings. Sulcatas need humidity as they grow up. I would be interested to see this breeder's adult tortoises and if they are pyramided. I have however heard of people using hay with an adult Sulcata.

I think there is no problem with him being in direct sunlight? What was the reasoning for that? Wow. If anything, it is not safe to leave him outside because of predators like birds. When he's big enough and there is a safe outdoor enclosure for him, that is fine. For now, I would only take him on supervised outings on pesticide/fertilizer free lawn. You can get a portable playpen of sorts so he feels safer than having free run of the yard. I soak my little guy before I take him outside, and have a hide available outside. Without a secure enclosure (fence dug in and hardware cloth or chicken wire on the top), you need to constantly supervise. But yes, the sun is safe for him lol! What would he do in the wild?

If you can't adjust the basking light, and if you need to, than either get the smaller wattage or use a lamp stand. So you have a basking light and a tube UVB? What type of basking light is it? Here's a ZooMed lamp stand I have:

For the future when that tube UVB needs to be replaced (6 months), I'd recommend a Mercury Vapor Bulb if Marley is still inside at that point. They last 12 months, and are a combined heat/UVB/light. They are a tad more expensive but have higher UVB output. With only one bulb, longer life, and one fixture it was cheaper for me in the long run. The T-Rex, Mega Ray, and Powersun models are best. See www.uvguide.co.uk/ for scientific data where the MVBs blow the UVB tubes out of the park with UVB output (the MVBs are very close to real sun).

The enclosure looks good. With him so tiny that is ok for awhile, but probably not a year as they get huge quickly! Can he get in and out of that water dish himself? Impressive. My tort wouldn't be able to do that. Once you add the new substrate that should work well. You probably want to make it at least 4 inches deep or so. Some tortoises like to burrow. If you see Marley likes to, than make it even deeper as you have the height. You can keep a pile of hay for hiding in if you want with the new substrate. I do that with my Russian and he loves it--prefers it to a box hide. As long as it doesn't get wet/moldy, it's fine. If it does, then just replace it weekly or whatever.

Is the black thing and the white dish both for food? You can try different types of hides to see what he likes. Fake plants, half log, etc. The box hides may be the best idea though as they cannot climb on them. If he doesn't use it though, then I would play around and see what works best. They do need a safe place to go into. Just make sure the tilted light doesn't shine into his eyes at a weird angle. Usually having the bulb face parallel to the substrate is best. One thing you may want to add is a hard surface such as a slate tile. I feed on one and it helps wear down the nails and beak.

He's so cute!

How long do you leave the lights on each day? In winter you may need some supplemental heat at night when you turn off the lights if your house is cold, below 65F or so.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Kate, the black thing measures temp and humidity...
I am hoping the OP will change from the hay soon, a small soft baby like that needs a softer better substrate. In my opinion he CAN go out into the bright sun light now. I don't think that UVB tube will put out much heat and I am wondering what is being used for nighttime heat? A baby that small needs to be kept warm.
To prevent pyramiding there are a few things that are very important, exercise, humidity, UVB lights and good food. It is your responsibility as his keeper to provide that, so you will need a better substrate (coir and sand) and then you'll keep it moist, hence creating humidity...

 

[tortoisenerd]

I wouldn't have thought of that Maggie with temp and humidity. Cool!

Maggie: What minimum temperature would you be suggesting for nighttime? I would think in summer the house would be at least in the 70s, but I guess I don't know where the OP lives. Glad you agree with my advice. That means a lot as you've actually kept a Sulcata unlike me. What's your opinion on the 1 week old age of the tort and the spending time in the water dish excessively including napping?

 

[Mochii]

Wow thank you!

So I went and bought bed-a-beast and sand. I avoided calci-sand and the only thing they had was repti sand. When you say "play sand" do you literally mean play sand for kids? Repti sand that i bought is this: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/204586/product.web. They say its made out of Quartz desert sand. Is that okay for Marley?

Also, how often do you change out the substrate? And when you do, do you change out the entire thing?

For live plants, I have a cactus that is in a tall pot which will probably fit into his enclosure. He wont be able to reach it because it's too tall for him. I was wondering if I could add that to help with humidity? Or does it have to be a different plant?

Thanks!

- Mochii & Marley.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Yes, play sand for kids from the home improvement stores. I think the larger particles of the play sand is better than what you got, but your call.

You should pick out any visible messes daily, and change out the substrate every few months or if it is smelly. Some torts only pee in the water, and then you pick up poops, so it tends to stay rather clean. You'll know when it's time.

A cactus will not add humidity, but is ok. With the moist substrate you don't have to worry about humidity as long as you keep it moist. You can add any type of plant you want that is on the safe lists you can find online. Fake plastic plants are also great with less upkeep. With live plants, make sure they are pesticide free, or sit out of the enclosure or well out of reach of the tort for 6 months to de-pesticide.

 

[Mochii]

It's 1am in the morning and we just finished changing out his substrate. Yay! The substrate mix is softer than I expected There were two opinions on the mix on the forums: 50/50 and 70/30 of coir/sand. I used 70/30 because we lacked sand.. the bed-a-beast expanded a lot more than I expected. I can already see him liking it better than hay which was dry.

He went into his house to sleep today (I don't know whether he went in there to sleep or he went in there and just happened to fall asleep) and seems to like it. I'm a bit concerned about the night time temperature though. I'm from San Diego, CA so it's fairly warm here these days. But for the future when it gets cold, how do you keep them warm at night? I can't keep the light on because of my roommate. Is there any other way? Heating pad?

Also, I noticed that the new substrate gets into his water bowl when he moves around to get in. Is it okay for him to drink that? Is it okay for him to eat his substrate? It has sand in it though.

THanks again.

- Mochii & Marley.

 

[spring pace]

hi mochii, great you made those substrate changes, marley already seems to be doing better. your ambient room temps of 70's at night is fine year round. create a hot spot w/ night time lamps, you can use a black light or a red light, it wont be as bothersome for your roommate. its OK if a little dirt/sand gets in the water, it wont hurt marley, theres no way he can get enough in his gut to impact. torts in the wild eat dirt along w/ their graze, as long as the food is fiber rich itll all pass w/ no problems. no heating pads please for any tort less than 5lbs. mochi can gain as much as 2lbs during his 1st 2 years. outside time in the sun is so good for babies, the graze the exercise, getting used to the outdoors helps the tort for future outside fulltime life. big smiles from galileo & spring

 

[Crazy1]

Hi Mochii and welcome to the forum. You have gotten some good advice already I will only add that there is a Ceramic heat emitter for nighttime heat. This provides heat but no light at all. They are more expensive than black lights or Infrared lights but last much longer and you can find them on e-bay sometimes cheaper. Good luck with Marley looks like you are off to a good start now.

 

[Mochii]

Thank you for the welcomes!

Now that I changed the substrate, I have more questions. So he had a lot of substrate in his water when I came back home (he was alone for 4-5 hours). He pooped in it (I think.. some solid round stuff in there) like three times. Is it okay for him to drink that water? I think he goes into the water whenever he wants to poo. He was in the water when I put him back in again so I took him out. Couple minutes later, he pooped in my hand. Do they poop that much? How often do they poo? He also got dirtier.. or should I say, sandy-er. He has dirt around his eyes and he tries to scratch it off with his arm from time to time (or at least I think he is). Will that bother his eyes?

He moves around a lot, back and forth the enclosure. Thats a good thing right? He's stubborn when it comes to his wanting to go through somewhere. I moved some of the stuff inside because his shell was blocking it. I think he flipped over and fell into the water bowl somehow. Broke my heart when I saw him struggling in there. I saw him do it again so I moved the stuff around to make sure he wont' fall in like that or flip by 'tripping'.

I haven't seen him burrow yet (I sort of want to hehe). He's busy walkign around. Thanks for all the info and advices! I'll post pics of him and the new enclosure soon.

- Mochii & Marley.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I use cypress mulch for my substrate simply because I don't care much for the 'residue' left in the water dishes or on the baby himself. I would hate for you to have to change the substrate again, but that's what I would do if I were you. I see in my other post I did agree with everyone else about using coir and sand. I forget to recommend the cypress mulch and for that I really apologize.
I use black light bulbs for my night time heat. I keep my babies about 75 degrees at night. But the black bulbs throw off a blue light so it's possible the roommate might not like them. You can buy a ceramic heat emitter, they put out a more concentrated heat and are kinda pricey. You might find one on Ebay or Craigs list. Your baby will settle down once you get everything the way you want it. They really don't like things changing so often.

 

[Crazy1]

70% coir/30% sand is a good mix. He will try and use his forarms to wipe it off his face. As it dries out a bit it will stick less, this should not hurt his eyes. He is active and wondering around because you changed his substrate. To him he is in a whole new place that needs to be explored. He has to find his way around, look for preditors, check all the smells. All the things a tort does when he moves into a new house. Torts often poo and urinate in the water. pooing can be brought on by a couple of reasons. 1) he just has to go. 2) he is stressed. ie. poo in hand (often used against preditors). 3) all the walking got his system going and like most of us exercise helps move things along. So I wouldn't worry if he is pooing a lot. If he is in the water a lot either he just likes his self soaks, or the temps in his enclosure could be too hot, or the humidity is too low. He is self hydrating. If you see poo in his water its time to clean it.
You'll want to make sure he doesn't flip under his basking lamp or in his water bowl as he could drown or over heat either could cause him to expire.
It may take him a few days to start to burrow. Sounds as if he is enjoying his new substrate. Oh and to help keep it out of his water place some rocks around it. Big enough rocks he can't swallow them, like small - medium smooth river rocks.

 

[Mochii]

Thanks I think I'll invest into a ceramic heat emitter for the future when it gets colder. So Marley would just go find the warm spot when he wants to be warm right?

I was thinking about trying out different substrate when it's time to change it out in couple months. But they don't like changes very much right? Coir/sand mix seems to work with him pretty well. I love the fact that it's soft and moist enough for him but it's so messy! Hahah. He looks comfortable when he falls asleep on the substrate or when he walks around the enclosure. He's such a cutie pie. So I was looking at different sections in the forums and I saw this: http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-8127.html and WOW! So jealous. It looks great I'm guessing that's aspen? And the tort looks like a baby also. Will that also work for Marley or is it too dry for him at his age? How about cypress mulch that Maggie suggested?

Today I saw Marley stretch in his soaking bowl. He seems to LOVE warm water when he gets soaked. He looks very relaxed and calm. I'm glad it's not stressing him out I've noticed that he does fall asleep a lot, probably because he's a baby. He moves around a lot, then sleeps, moves around, drinks, poos, and sleeps. He looks like he's about to do something, and then he knocks out at that spot. He is adorable!

Oh and for food, I've been mixing burmuda hay soaked in water (to make it softer) with organic baby lettuce and carrots. He ate most of the lettuce and carrots yesterday, and it seems like he just eats throughout the day. How can I get him to start eating the hay? Is he too young for that now? I just read from this thread that it's bad to feed him carrots on daily basis so I will be making changes (http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-5823.html). Gosh, I just simply love this forum. How many kinds should I mix in as variety?

And as for taking him outside, I place him on the grass to walk around and graze right? Because I'm in the apartments, I dont konw what they put into those grasses outside. Should I worry about that and place him somewhere else or is it okay for him to walk around that still? I can't wait to take him out and take pictures of him so he can be happy with the grass hehe.

Sigh. I was in class today and all I could think about was Marley. My roommate says that I worry too much but he's so small and almost foreign to me because I never had a tort before. I'm worried that something bad might happen but I really enjoy this forum and thanks for all the advices. I want him to be a happy tort!

- M&M

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I just realized I have so many question marks in my posts.. haha. Thanks for answering all my small questions.

We have a little "slide" for him in the corner so that it will be more entertaining and he seems to like it because he goes up on it often.. and he fell asleep there at the corner! I thought it was so cute so I took a picture of him. The flash went off but he's still sleeping I'm attempted to move him into a house but I think it's better for me to not bother him while I'm sleeping.. so I'm resisting.

The first picture is the enclosure with the new substrate.



Isn't he a cutie? Gosh. I have a feeling I'm going to spoil him hehehe.

- M&M

 

[spring pace]

sulcatas are BIG poopers and they love to poop in water, so youll have to change the water often, but dont get stressed thinking about it when your gone for a few hours at a time, getting a little poop in their gut is not a bad thing, it doesnt stay in there very long as you can tell by the amt they get rid of each day. if hes got mostly sand on his body, sounds to me your ratio of sand to coir is too high, add more coir and there shouldnt be any more problems. also sounds as if hes already digging if hes got sand all over his face. sulcatas are nomads, its in their nature to move many miles a day in the wild. give marley the opportunity to go outside as often as you can, the exercise will be so good for him. you did not get a docile species of tort mochii, they can be sweet and funny and you should worry when your tort stops moving around so much if not resting or visably asleep. the only other reason they would stop being so active is when they are too cold, too sick or too hot. change for them is also something they need to get used to, even the new position of their hides affects them. babies flip a lot, so putting rocks and stuff like that in their enclosures can attribute to being upside down. im not a big fan of plastic plants in enclosures, but i can see the value of them, they are breaks in the scenery to walk around for variety, give shelter and are something to play with. i would find gali in the middle of his table upside down sometimes on a flat surface, and i wonder how the heck did he did that until i realized he was trying to climb out and fell over then in trying to right himself he scooted over to the middle using his legs that werent long enough to right himself. so i put a sight barrier around and overlapping the rim of his table so he couldnt see up over the walls. that stopped him flipping so often. getting used to having a tortoise definitely takes several months of getting used to, so be patient, youll work out all the kinks and once you have the table to HIS liking itll get easier and youll worry less. questions are good, we learn w/ questions, never take anything for granted. i didnt know that tort poop was supposed to look like cow or horse poop and never even thought to question that. someone else brought it up on another forum and i realized that galileos poop was all wrong. took me months to fix it and hes so much better for it. big smiles from galileo & spring

 

[tortoisenerd]

Something to remember is that you need a night time temperature drop. If your low temperature in the enclosure in winter happens to be in the 70s (going up to the basking spot of 95), and your room temperature stays above 65 at night, then I recommend no heat. If you use a heater to keep it 75 at night, and that's your low temperature in the day, then the tort doesn't get the temeprature drop like they do in the wild. You can observe the behavior and see how they do. I can tell if my little guy was a little cold overnight as he spends more time waking up, basking, and getting moving in the morning. A little heat at night is fine, but you don't want to keep him hot. It's a little tough to set up a heat emitter just right and guess where the tort will sleep. My tort learned to sleep under the heat emitter, or just off to the side of it, as he desires. You don't have to think about that for a couple months probably. What's the temperature in your house in winter? The only reason I even need one is we keep our house about 60, so I warm it up to 65-70 for him.

Yes, they thermoregulate and he'd go to the warm spot. The only thing that I have heard is that once they are asleep they will not thermoregulate, so you don't want any one spot he could sleep to be too warm, or to warm up more as the night goes on after he falls asleep. That is one reason I love my laser thermometer--I can easily test the temperatures at a few spots. Many people don't even use night heat as they keep their house a little warmer.

I would give the current substrate a shot. If you both don't like it after a fair shot, then try something new in a month or whatever.

Yes, Hermy's enclosure you linked to is aspen. I have that too. Hermy is a juvenile. A dry substrate like aspen isn't the best idea for a Sulcata as they are very prone to pyramiding, unlike Russians (like my Trevor), or Hermanns (like Hermy).

That's good you read that about carrots. I agree. Maybe a piece every few months. Cactus pads is the only sweet food that is healthy for them. I feed about 6 types of greens in the spring mix, plus on average 2 others that I'll rotate through. I also rotate spring mix brands. The more variety the better. I would estimate you want at least 10-12 foods that you rotate and feed for variety. One thing shouldn't ever make up too much of the diet. If you can grow graze for him that is ideal. You will need to do that very soon anyways once he gets huge and will be living outside.

You just keep mixing in a little hay (and/or organic grass), and as he accidentally gets bites of it, or grows older, he will hopefully get a taste for it.

In an apartment unless you are absolutely positive the grass is organic without pesticides/fertilizers (99.99% sure it's not), then don't let him walk on it. You can grow graze in pots or even cat litter pans until he gets a yard. If you want to let him walk around outside, I suggest you either get a Rubbermaid plastic tote with substrate that is safe (so he can get sun), or have a portable pen on the cement. With either you want a hide/shade, and if the enclosure doesn't have water and he's going to be out for more than a bit then I soak my little guy first. Also, you have to have constant supervision unless it's a secure enclosure AND he's bigger. I don't take my little guy out unless it's in the 80s. He needs something to feel safe and secure in as going from being in a "small" enclosure to free roaming can be scary. You may see him take of running. Some people may think that means they are happy, but another possibility is they are looking for a safe hiding spot. My opinions.

Funny slide. Does that show 90% humidity? Is the substrate expel water when you squeeze it? It should be moist but not wet. Maybe the gauge is wrong though... I also agree you may have too much sand. If you find you don't want or need the sand, then you can use the coir without, Cyprus mulch, orchid bark, organic soil, etc.

When a tort is stressed, in new environments, or has been constipated, they will poop a lot. Twice a day can be normal/average, so more than that could be for some of those reasons. Yes, they like to poop in water!

I think fake plants or similar would be good as they are tougher to climb, make good sight barriers, and hiding spots.