New Substrate

[purpod]

I would never again recommend using sand in any form for a substrate for Mediterranean or Russian tortoises which is the species that is being asked about.

Excuse me for my 3 cents; I was not specifically recommending using sand for any species other than Leopards & was only referring to what works best from my experiences with them in my post.

Have a good day ~
Purpod

 

[GBtortoises]

I am only doing the same by stating that I would not recommend using sand as part or all of a substrate for Mediterranean species based on my experiences. I have in the past also used a sand mix substrate with Leopards and Sulcata when I had them with no complaints. I have Pancake tortoises and do use a 50/50 sand/mulch mix with good results. I also have Redfoot tortoises and use only a 100% mulch substrate and would not use sand with them either. Based on my experiences.

 

[Madkins007]

GB- what was your experience with sand that soured you so badly on the stuff? I am always curious when someone has a reason to go against a widespread recommendation.

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Would you recommend cypress mulch over coir/sand for a Russian?

Me, no- but I lack experience or research in Russians. They are smaller and burrow more so have different responses than Red-foots. Use the recommendations of the more experienced RT keepers, though.

 

[GBtortoises]

The problem I have with the sand with my young Mediterranean and Russian tortoises is that is was constantly stuck too them. They often bury themselves completely in the substrate and upon coming to the surface the sand would be stuck to their eyes, mouth and everywhere else. As I stated in other posts, I think sand in a substrate for Tropical and Arid species tortoises is fine. My Pancake tortoises are set up on a substrate of 50% sand or (or more) and the rest organic potting soil. My Redfoots are snow et up on a mixture of organic potting soil, coconut coir, sphagum moss and leaf litter. I see no reason for the sand mixed in with them myself but some people claim that it provides better drainage. I keep my Redfoots very wet and my Pancakes fairly dry. In either case the sand doesn't stick nearly as much to the animal. The wet substrate used to keep the sand in the substrate more while the dry substrate does not allow it to stick at all, except for the once a day that I spray the Pancake enclosure, but the moisture doesn't last very long.

But Mediterraneans and Russian tortoises should not be kept as wet (constant heat & humidity) as tropical species and not as dry (warm) as arid species. They are from a temperate climate which is how I strive to keep mine. By doing so my substrate retains some moisture down lower where they burrow while the top is slightly drier from ambient heat and air circulation. So consequently the lower substrate is just "tacky" enough that the sand sticks to them. I have never had a problem with the other substrate components sticking to them. Because it is not so fine in consistency it seems to fall away from them as they come to the top. The few pieces of mulch that they do come to the surface with fall off once they've taken a few steps.

I have not had that problem with my Pancakes (adults), Redfoots (young and adult) or Burmese Brown (subadult) because they do not bury themselves in the substrate as my other young tortoises do. My adult Mediterranean and Russians are on a different type of substrate and do not have the opportunity to burrow indoors so there is no issue with them.

Again (because I've been "railed" elsewhere for it) I am not saying that sand is not a good choice for tropical or arid climate species. In my experience it does seem to be fine for tortoises from those areas. But, absolutely do not think that sand is a good choice for temperate climate tortoises due to their mid range substrate humidity needs.

 

[crisscross187]

I just get bags of the plain, cheap cypress. It may contain some pine, but other than one person's experience I have not seen any evidence that the small amounts in some mixes are a problem (based on my experience and research).

You can 'top dress' your soil with the cypress as well- that gives you more 'sponge-like' soil and the top layer of cypress does not stick.

What Kind of soil do you use. I;m looking for a good soil and substrate to mix so my little guy can burrow.

 

[Rhyno47]

I wanted this thread to be about cypress mulch not sand.

 

[Madkins007]

I just get bags of the plain, cheap cypress. It may contain some pine, but other than one person's experience I have not seen any evidence that the small amounts in some mixes are a problem (based on my experience and research).

You can 'top dress' your soil with the cypress as well- that gives you more 'sponge-like' soil and the top layer of cypress does not stick.

What Kind of soil do you use. I;m looking for a good soil and substrate to mix so my little guy can burrow.

What's your little guy?

For Red-foods, right now I am leaning towards long-fibered spahgnum moss and/or orchid bark for little ones, and cypress mulch for bigger ones.