New Sulcata and Sick

[TortieGal]

Hello Everyone
I have a Sulcata baby he is about 4" just a little guy, His name is Hermen. I have only had him for about 2 months. He started making funny sounding nasely popping noises so I took him to the vet and he has a respatory infection. I really felt I was keeping him warm enough but now I'm not sure. The vet said it could be many things a bug or stress, he doesn't seem to be stressed he eats well. I was using that Calci sand and it was so dusty I thought it might have been that. I found out it is bad stuff to use anyway because of eye infections and can cause them to compact. I read to use eco earth of bed a beast and mix it with organic top soil. My Vet said do not use the eco earth stuff because most all the tortoise's she see's is because of that stuff getting stuck in there crevices and causing infection. I like the idea of just putting soil in there but I couldn't find any Organic top soil I did find
organic potting mix that has composted bark sphagnum peat moss,pastureized poultry litter and organic wetting agent? really not sure if all that is good for him. I talked to someone that said they use Cat country litter or yerterday Mew these litters are all grass pellets so I'm thinking of useing that. Any help would be great I just want a good safe easy to clean substrate. Glad to have found this forum thanks Janiedaugh!
TortieGal

 

[Candy]

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear that your little one is not feeling well. There are a lot of people on this site that own Sulcata's so I'm sure you won't have a problem getting the right information from them. I don't have one so I'm not sure exactly about the substrate, but I do know that a lot of people have suggested that potting soil might have perilite in it and that is not good for tortoises. I'm sure it won't be long before someone comes on here with the information that you're looking for. When you get a chance post some pictures of his enclosure that helps a lot too (and of course pictures of him).

 

[spring pace]

sorry herman is sick, the best substrate to use for humidity ( and it sounds like herman may be dehydrated too because of the straight sand) is the eco earth ( AKA bed-a-beast or coir) and playsand mixture 50/50% at least 4-6" deep. id stay away from the cat litter, too many chemicals for a tort thats already compromised (or a healthy tort even) and you cant get the 60-80% humidity w/ that kind of substrate, and i cant stress how important humidity is for a sulcata. i used coconut coir, there are no additives, just the husk and retains moisture, the playsand for kids has been sterilized and gives the coir a good balance, no chance of impaction when the two are mixed together. that combo lasts about 6 months w/ daily cleanup and is easy to clean when you chage it out, it doesnt get muddy like topsoil does either. hope herman recovers quickly and keep giving him his dandelion, kale, hibiscus, a little treat of watermenlon or cactus pear, radiccio, grasses to graze, etc., and always fresh water in his enclosure. make sure he has a basking spot and a cooler place to go to when he wants to cool down, a nice snug hide and along w/ treating the infection and your TLC. i hope he recovers quickly. galileo & spring big smiles

 

[Rhyno47]

Mine had the same infection about a month ago. He got it from shipping and stress from it. The doctor gave him an antibiotic which helps and some other crap that shouldnt be used. With a respiratory infection he will be dehydrated. Soak him daily. Plus add some squash baby food into his soak water (warm of course.) He will drink it and get nutrients from the squash. With the infection my little guy's nostrils shut so he couldnt breathe. He didnt know what all to eat yet so every time he went to smell food he couldnt so he didnt eat. Thats where the squash helps. Plus they love squash. This is a very serious infection. Ive heard of many sulcatas dying from it. But keep his temperature up, (especially at night to help their metabolism,) soak him with the squash, and handle him the least u can to minimize stress and he should pull through in 1 to 2 weeks.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Tortiegal:

to the forum!!

I like to use cypress mulch for my substrates. You can also use orchid bark because its a pure and clean product. When you mix the coconut coir with play sand, its a good consistency and they generally don't eat it. If you have access to a good, clean soil from outside, you can go that way too. The main thing is to use something that you can moisten. The sulcata needs a little bit of humidity in his habitat to help his shell to grow smoothly and not pyramid. When you add water and stir it up, the lights quickly dry out the top layer of the substrate, but it stays moist underneath. That's a good thing.

Where are you located?

Yvonne

 

[Isa]

Welcome to the forum
I am sorry to hear that Hermen is sick, I hope he will feel better soon!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Most keepers use eco earth and sand so I can't imagine that any tortoise would get sick from it. I use cypress mulch, it retains moisture and that creates the needed humidity. I won't offer any more advice as I see you have already received the best advice. Keep asking questions here and post some pictures, we LOVE pictures...

 

[TortieGal]

Thanks for all the Help everyone. I am located in Roseburg Oregon. I decided to go with playsand and eco earth which is against my vets advice but is what most people told me to use. Now I'm starting to hear about the orchid bark and cypress mulch so maybe that will be good to try next time. I bought him some Kale today but he didn't seem to like it much I will keep offering it. I also threw in some grass and dandy lion leaves. I think I have him spoiled on spring mix from Fred myer. I did get his antibiotic in him just fine to day, I have some orange colored food I got from the gal that gave him to me its from the pet store for tortiose's I know now not to feed him much of this but I figured its a good thing cause I can put his antibiotic in it and he will eat it. I have him living in a 55 Gal tank with a screen top and his lights to one side so he can move out from under them if he wants. I put his substrate all at one end about 5 to 6 inches deep and some grass hay at the other end with his water and some slate rock in the middle. I just put his substrate in and he is really checking it out, even eating a bit of it.
I had one person email me and tell me not to get him wet but everyone else says soak so I'm going to soak. Thanks Ryanseiler for the squash baby food idea I never seen him soak so long! and drank. My Vet did say he didn't look dehydrated so thats good and he does eat good.
I take him outside to graze when the temp reaches 70 in the shade. Where his pen is which is were the grass grows green is right by the porch and when I water my plants some water will drip down into some of his grass it doesnt get all of his area wet but a good part of it do you think that could have made him cold? Do you think I should still let him go out side with a cold?
I am also going to go get him some Repical for calcium and vit D. I hope and pray he pulls out of this. Thanks again for your help.
Sue

 

[spring pace]

ya know, i really didnt listen right away about the glass aquarium, and today i can kick myself for not changing to a more conventional tort table sooner. gali has some pyramiding and i could have avoided it. hes outside full time now because hes too big for the house and his new shell growth is nice and smooth and hard, but i couldve done better, i probably wouldve prevented his URI too. for gali it took months to get fully better, again my fault for not listening sooner

 

[Rhyno47]

Yeah eco-earth and sand is great. I use a 1 part sand to every 3 eco-earth. Its dry here in western Maryland so it holds pretty well. Also the deeper you make it the more moisture it will hold. Also every two weeks add a lot of water into the tank. Just remove everything add the water then stir. And yeah baby food squash on anything will entice them to eat anything. My guy clicked forever but his nose cleared after a while. Another thing is to make sure your reptical is "with D3". And make sure you add a heat night light for at night. It should stay around 75 to 80 degrees at night in his tank. And by tank i mean tub, table etc. I like Rubbermaid tubs best. Theyre cheap and reliable. Also diet, no kale, get spring mix. It will be in the salad isle in the grocery store. It has a lot of good greens. Variety is good. One last thing. Where did you get your sulcata?

 

[Yvonne G]

My sister, Maggie, lives in Corvallis, Oregon. Nice to see another Oregonian on the forum!

There's nothing wrong with feeding your little guy the Spring Mix. You can also add the other types of weeds to the Spring Mix.


Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

It is very easy to overdose on D3, so if your guy is going outside and getting UVB rays from the sun and from a UVB light inside I wouldn't get the Reptical with D3. You'd be better off with straight Reptical. That is if he is getting UVB everyday avoid the stuff with D3.
You can continue to use Spring Mix, then add some weeds to it and cut some grass and add that too. If he's outside he'll graze some too. He's a small baby and you need to treat him like a baby.
You can safely use the coir and sand. Then every couple of days you'll want to pour some water over it and mix it all up. I put the tort into soak and while he's soaking I pour hot water over his substrate and mix it up. Then I put his food in and while he's warm and awake from his soak I put him in front of his food.
You did not give him a 'cold'. URTI is something they get from being stressed out or any number of things which I cannot remember at all right now. So that must mean I need to go to bed...
Oh and it's me who lives in Corvallis...
I also forgot to say that you need to up his temperature while he's sick. And you can have the substrate all across the bottom of the tank. Just pile the hay on top of the substrate. They like to burrow under the hay and into the substrate.

 

[Rhyno47]

What does too much D3 do?

 

[Meg90]

At four inches though he's just alittle guy. IMO I would reccomend the D3. I use Ca with D3 at every feeding for my 10 month old greek. While they are still growing, at such a pace, I think its ok to supplement it as well as have a UVB bulb on them.

Also, live by this one rule: moist and cold=BAD moist and warm= Good

Animals that live in the driest conditions on earth, all have to keep their humidity up one way or another. Sullys in the wild urinate in their burrows to control their own climates. In captivity, they can't so its up to their keepers to create it for them

 

[TortieGal]

I got Hermen from my neice that bought him from a pet store for her two little boys and the youngest was to rough with him would poke at him was just to wild. Plus she didn't realize the care he would need he was getting mainly pet store food so I took him in thinking I could do a lot better for him and now he's sick. His heat got down to almost 70 just a bit above last night. I had 75 wat light on him and thought it would stay warmer. I was thinking of getting one of those tank heaters today that you stick on the bottom of the tank, just a small one so he can get off it easy. Do you think that would be a good idea? He would be able to stay a lot warmer.
I really want to make him a tortiose table in the near future but for now I don't have one. Is a rubber made tub better? the glass makes it nice to watch him while I'm on the computer I wouldnt be able to see him as well in a tub. Its seems like it would be the same for holding in heat and I don't know if I could put the under the tank heater in a rubber made. I would set it on the lowest setting so it wouldnt get to hot. Please let me know more about this because I could get him a big tub. I want to do whats best for him.
My Vet said to give him the D3, she said the male's do a lot better here then the females because they are like chickens in making eggs and Oregon don't have enough sun. My doctor even has me on it because I was low she said we don't absorbe it here. I haven't gotten any in him yet but I will work on that today. It looks like it might be nice enough for him to go outside today.
Hi Maggie its good to know someone else from Oregon is on here! Is you Tortiose kept outside? If so how do you keep him warm enough seems like they would never come off a heating pad in the winter. Its probably warmer over your way I think your closer to the coast?
Hermen starting to wake up I better get his antibiotic ready. Thanks everyone.
Sue

 

[Meg90]

You will still be able to see him in a rubbermaid tub. This is what I have for my Nigel (he's bigger at this point then your sully!)

This was his old set up. Two tubs connected with a PVC pipe tunnel. I covered the back, and two sides with black paper, but the front I left open.

Here is what he has now

THAT bin I got at Christmas time (its a fake tree storage bin) But you see, the bin still provides visibility.

No undertank heaters.
Its not good for their little developing bodies to be right on top of heat. The carapace (top shell) absorbs heat better, and allows them to distribute it. If anything, get a cheap "basking" lamp from the petstore for 20$ until you get a mercury vapor bulb. That will keep him warm. 75 at night is ok. Make sure its dark for him though. They need night just like people do, and if its bright all the time, you will make him sicker, because it will confuse him.

Can you post some pictures of how you are keeping him?

 

[Rhyno47]

Well that sure explains it.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I am north of you passed Eugene, not towards the coast. My bigger Sulcata has his own insulated shed that he lives in with a doggie door for him to go in and out as he wants. My others I put outside everyday and bring them in at night. One, Queenie, lives in Bob's shed in a tort table and my others are in the house with me.

An overdose of D3 causes mineralization of soft tissues and in renal damage, too much D3 causes an overload of calcium in the blood, and will mineralize in the liver and kidneys. It's usually liver failure that kills them.

Now that's what I was taught and what I have always believed, but as with everything else that could be old school thinking and with modern keeping of chelonia things change. So...I am sure that Danny is just chomping at the bit waiting to tell everyone how old fashioned and wrong I am...
He just loves to contradict me...so here ya go Danny...

 

[K9KidsLove]

Hi...I would suggest getting a ceramic heat emitter or a black light to put on one end of his tank at night to keep the temp at 80. During the day he needs his temp to be 95-105 until he is well. Then he needs a basking spot in the mid to upper 90's. (Don't forget this is a desert tort and you live in a rather wet state!!) This can be accomplished using a regular household bulb(probably a 100 watt). Get a temp gun or a digital thermometer with a probe ($12 at Walmart) to make sure your temps are good. The ones you stick on the side of the tank are way off. You need to put the probe at the floor level for about 45 minutes for an accurate reading.
As soon as you can, make him a table, as a tank doesn't have good air circulation. I would tape some dark paper, about 6" tall, around the bottom of the sides of his tank so he feels safer.

Is your vet a tort vet or just a puppy/kitty vet who will see torts? Find out from Maggie who she uses for a vet. Puppy/kitty vets usually don't know enough about torts to diagnose properly.

Please let us know how he is doing
Good luck
Patsy

 

[TortieGal]

Thanks for the picture' s and advice. Herman seems to be doing a bit better I'm not hearing the noise as much. I am taking your advice and going to get him a rubber maid tub today I'll look around and find the biggest one I can. I do have a basking light on one end and normally I have a 27" Zilla dessert 50 for him it burned out last week and I have a new one ordered should be here Tuesday. I guess I can still use it on the rubber maid just put in corner to corner, or use a screen.
I will try to get some pic's on here. Why cant I type in the message area after clicking on new reply?
Does the Cypress mulch or orchid bark have to be organic?
Thanks Sue