New table

Mark Cassell

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Hi, I've just built a table for my 7 month old horsefield tortoise and have recently moved her from a vivarium to a table, and am constantly worrying about her, I worry about substrate, lights, food, humidity and general well being. I will add some pictures of the table and would appreciate any advice you can give. Thanks Mark.

14729089110771655845388.jpg
 
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Tidgy's Dad

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Hello, Mark, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum.
Looks pretty good to me, what are the dimensions ?
I'd be a bit careful of the military presence in the enclosure. I'd be worried my tortoise would bite off pieces of plastic or paint.
Also I'd be a bit concerned about maintaining humidity levels.
Have you read http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
or http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/ ?
Lots of good advice in these.
 

Yvonne G

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Hi Mark, and welcome to the Forum!

Yipes! A war zone!!

I would like to have seen the tortoise in the scenario to be able to tell how big the table is.
 

Mark Cassell

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Messages
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Hello, Mark, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum.
Looks pretty good to me, what are the dimensions ?
I'd be a bit careful of the military presence in the enclosure. I'd be worried my tortoise would bite off pieces of plastic or paint.
Also I'd be a bit concerned about maintaining humidity levels.
Have you read http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
or http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/ ?
Lots of good advice in these.

Hi, thanks for taking a look. The table is 600mm wide and 1200mm long I've looked at so many threads and think a lot of it is bad advice. I'm not worried about her eating any plastic or paint but thanks for your concern I'm more concerned about the substrate as I do my own with 40% play sand and60% top soil.
 

Mark Cassell

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Messages
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Hello, Mark, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum.
Looks pretty good to me, what are the dimensions ?
I'd be a bit careful of the military presence in the enclosure. I'd be worried my tortoise would bite off pieces of plastic or paint.
Also I'd be a bit concerned about maintaining humidity levels.
Have you read http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
or http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/ ?
Lots of good advice in these.
Like the pictures in the threads you shared, they are in vivariums with glass sides! A big no no. So I don't take advice off people like that thanks.

DSC_0135.JPG
 
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Yvonne G

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Aw...he's just a itty bitty baby! You were concerned about substrate. Here's what HermanniChris says about substrate for the testudos in his care sheet (it was written for Greeks, but works just as well for Russians:

"The best possible substrates for housing Greek tortoises indoors are a 50/50 mix of top soil and play sand, cypress mulch and aspen wood shavings. When using aspen it is very important to make sure the tortoises stay hydrated because it tends to be very dry. Rabbit pellets will suffice but do not hold humidity well and mold will grow quickly in soiled areas. Cedar and pine bedding are an absolute NO, as they are toxic to tortoises."
 

Mark Cassell

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Aw...he's just a itty bitty baby! You were concerned about substrate. Here's what HermanniChris says about substrate for the testudos in his care sheet (it was written for Greeks, but works just as well for Russians:

"The best possible substrates for housing Greek tortoises indoors are a 50/50 mix of top soil and play sand, cypress mulch and aspen wood shavings. When using aspen it is very important to make sure the tortoises stay hydrated because it tends to be very dry. Rabbit pellets will suffice but do not hold humidity well and mold will grow quickly in soiled areas. Cedar and pine bedding are an absolute NO, as they are toxic to tortoises."
Thanks that's great, I added more sand but it wasn't firm enough. She couldn't get a foothold when she was on her back trying to self right herself. So now I've added more soil and it's probably 50\50. Should I wet it up quite often?
 
M

Maggie Cummings

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Hi and welcome.....Here's my take on part. You MUST get rid of most of the sand, it causes impaction. I personally don't use sand at all. I use , small sized orchid bark, or cypress mulch, or plain top soil with NOTHING in it. Aspen shavings are too dry. I have at least 10 chelonia in large aquariums, 100 gallons or more and I have been using glass sided containers for years, and I have NEVER had a problem. That opinion is kind of old school. So I am one of a group that seriously disagree with the no glass people. That way for one I can look across the room and see what my tortoises are doing. I can glance across the room and see if a baby is on it's back. I also have 6 large tort tables for the others and everybody has an outside pen where they spend their days. This is what I see wrong with your set up.
1. Is that a German cross I see in the table itself?
2. The water dish needs to be full, and put more down into the soil for easier for a baby to get in.
3. I don't see night warmth, I use black light 70 watts for night warmth. Remember he's a baby he will sleep a lot and he needs extra warmth at night.
4. There's no way for you to create humidity.
Well, I guess that's all I will say for now. I run "Maggie's Small Special Needs Tortoise Rescue". All my animals are blind or missing jaws or missing legs, etc. I have given you my 'opinion' and experience, that how 'I' keep my animals. You have many experts here, I am simply experienced, and that's how I keep my animals, and I am very successful.
But you will get different opinions, take what you can use and forget the rest. Yvonne is 'super moderator' and has almost 40 years of experience. If she tells you something, LISTEN to her and try and do what she says. And PLEASE do not say...(So I don't take advice off people like that thanks.) If you don't like the advice, don't take it. But this is a very friendly forum, don't say anything hostile, or hurt people's feelings. You can disagree politely. I personally don't appreciate that comment even tho it was said to someone I don't particularly care for. Believe me, I am normally rude and blunt and will speak my mind, but this is a great forum, I have come VERY close to being kicked off, so I am just sharing some info with you.
You are like so many people without experience, you ask for advice then either argue with the person giving the advice or insult them. If you don't agree with the advice, simply don't take it, but please don't insult the person who is trying to help you. This is a family forum and we try to keep it fun and easy. That is NOT to say we haven't had arguments, or bad disagreements, but we have moderators who are good and fair. So all that is advice from one who spends a lot of time in trouble here. So welcome, and if you don't agree with me fine, but remember, we are trying to help you with what you asked, please understand. And your baby is too small to sex.
Welcome from Oregon.
 
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Yvonne G

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Thanks that's great, I added more sand but it wasn't firm enough. She couldn't get a foothold when she was on her back trying to self right herself. So now I've added more soil and it's probably 50\50. Should I wet it up quite often?

To help the substrate to be a little firmer, pat it down with the palm of your hand.

I like to have it MOIST underneath, but not too wet on top. To achieve this, when it starts to dry out, I pour water down into a corner so it flows under, not on top.
 

Tidgy's Dad

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It is indeed a great forum and I believe has the most up to date and reliable care sheets to be found, as well as a set of experienced, knowledgeable and caring tortoise and turtle owners who are very happy, day after day, to share their experiences and wisdom.
For some issues, there are disagreements or people may have their own particular favourite way of doing things. I prefer to use coco coir, others use cypress mulch, or orchid bark and so on.
But I firmly agree that sand is an impaction risk, and also doesn't help with humidity and is why I don't use aspen, either.
But we all have our opinions..
What is wrong with glass ? It's quite possible to have an enclosure without it, of course, but i'm interested to know why you dislike it.
And what @Tom has to say.
 

Mark Cassell

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Messages
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It is indeed a great forum and I believe has the most up to date and reliable care sheets to be found, as well as a set of experienced, knowledgeable and caring tortoise and turtle owners who are very happy, day after day, to share their experiences and wisdom.
For some issues, there are disagreements or people may have their own particular favourite way of doing things. I prefer to use coco coir, others use cypress mulch, or orchid bark and so on.
But I firmly agree that sand is an impaction risk, and also doesn't help with humidity and is why I don't use aspen, either.
But we all have our opinions..
What is wrong with glass ? It's quite possible to have an enclosure without it, of course, but i'm interested to know why you dislike it.
And what @Tom has to say.
Hi I've been getting a lot of advice from the tortoise table, and other websites, that all say "don't use glass" it stresses them out and have 70\30 soil, sand mix. What do you mean by "impact tion"?
Thanks Mark.
 

Mark Cassell

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2016
Messages
69
To help the substrate to be a little firmer, pat it down with the palm of your hand.

I like to have it MOIST underneath, but not too wet on top. To achieve this, when it starts to dry out, I pour water down into a corner so it flows under, not on top.
Thanks Yvonne, that's a good idea
 

Mark Cassell

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2016
Messages
69
Hi and welcome.....Here's my take on part. You MUST get rid of most of the sand, it causes impaction. I personally don't use sand at all. I use , small sized orchid bark, or cypress mulch, or plain top soil with NOTHING in it. Aspen shavings are too dry. I have at least 10 chelonia in large aquariums, 100 gallons or more and I have been using glass sided containers for years, and I have NEVER had a problem. That opinion is kind of old school. So I am one of a group that seriously disagree with the no glass people. That way for one I can look across the room and see what my tortoises are doing. I can glance across the room and see if a baby is on it's back. I also have 6 large tort tables for the others and everybody has an outside pen where they spend their days. This is what I see wrong with your set up.
1. Is that a German cross I see in the table itself?
2. The water dish needs to be full, and put more down into the soil for easier for a baby to get in.
3. I don't see night warmth, I use black light 70 watts for night warmth. Remember he's a baby he will sleep a lot and he needs extra warmth at night.
4. There's no way for you to create humidity.
Well, I guess that's all I will say for now. I run "Maggie's Small Special Needs Tortoise Rescue". All my animals are blind or missing jaws or missing legs, etc. I have given you my 'opinion' and experience, that how 'I' keep my animals. You have many experts here, I am simply experienced, and that's how I keep my animals, and I am very successful.
But you will get different opinions, take what you can use and forget the rest. Yvonne is 'super moderator' and has almost 40 years of experience. If she tells you something, LISTEN to her and try and do what she says. And PLEASE do not say...(So I don't take advice off people like that thanks.) If you don't like the advice, don't take it. But this is a very friendly forum, don't say anything hostile, or hurt people's feelings. You can disagree politely. I personally don't appreciate that comment even tho it was said to someone I don't particularly care for. Believe me, I am normally rude and blunt and will speak my mind, but this is a great forum, I have come VERY close to being kicked off, so I am just sharing some info with you.
You are like so many people without experience, you ask for advice then either argue with the person giving the advice or insult them. If you don't agree with the advice, simply don't take it, but please don't insult the person who is trying to help you. This is a family forum and we try to keep it fun and easy. That is NOT to say we haven't had arguments, or bad disagreements, but we have moderators who are good and fair. So all that is advice from one who spends a lot of time in trouble here. So welcome, and if you don't agree with me fine, but remember, we are trying to help you with what you asked, please understand. And your baby is too small to sex.
Welcome from Oregon.
Sorry I've read so many different websites saying don't use glass sides because it stresses them out and to use a 70/30% mix soil, sand. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I totally agree with you!
 

Yvonne G

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10 Year Member!
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Hi I've been getting a lot of advice from the tortoise table, and other websites, that all say "don't use glass" it stresses them out and have 70\30 soil, sand mix. What do you mean by "impact tion"?
Thanks Mark.

Impaction is when the sand sticks to the food after he has traipsed all over it with sand on his feet, then he eats it and being heavy, it sinks to the bottom of the stomach, builds up and eventually plugs up the 'works.'
 

Mark Cassell

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2016
Messages
69
Hi and welcome.....Here's my take on part. You MUST get rid of most of the sand, it causes impaction. I personally don't use sand at all. I use , small sized orchid bark, or cypress mulch, or plain top soil with NOTHING in it. Aspen shavings are too dry. I have at least 10 chelonia in large aquariums, 100 gallons or more and I have been using glass sided containers for years, and I have NEVER had a problem. That opinion is kind of old school. So I am one of a group that seriously disagree with the no glass people. That way for one I can look across the room and see what my tortoises are doing. I can glance across the room and see if a baby is on it's back. I also have 6 large tort tables for the others and everybody has an outside pen where they spend their days. This is what I see wrong with your set up.
1. Is that a German cross I see in the table itself?
2. The water dish needs to be full, and put more down into the soil for easier for a baby to get in.
3. I don't see night warmth, I use black light 70 watts for night warmth. Remember he's a baby he will sleep a lot and he needs extra warmth at night.
4. There's no way for you to create humidity.
Well, I guess that's all I will say for now. I run "Maggie's Small Special Needs Tortoise Rescue". All my animals are blind or missing jaws or missing legs, etc. I have given you my 'opinion' and experience, that how 'I' keep my animals. You have many experts here, I am simply experienced, and that's how I keep my animals, and I am very successful.
But you will get different opinions, take what you can use and forget the rest. Yvonne is 'super moderator' and has almost 40 years of experience. If she tells you something, LISTEN to her and try and do what she says. And PLEASE do not say...(So I don't take advice off people like that thanks.) If you don't like the advice, don't take it. But this is a very friendly forum, don't say anything hostile, or hurt people's feelings. You can disagree politely. I personally don't appreciate that comment even tho it was said to someone I don't particularly care for. Believe me, I am normally rude and blunt and will speak my mind, but this is a great forum, I have come VERY close to being kicked off, so I am just sharing some info with you.
You are like so many people without experience, you ask for advice then either argue with the person giving the advice or insult them. If you don't agree with the advice, simply don't take it, but please don't insult the person who is trying to help you. This is a family forum and we try to keep it fun and easy. That is NOT to say we haven't had arguments, or bad disagreements, but we have moderators who are good and fair. So all that is advice from one who spends a lot of time in trouble here. So welcome, and if you don't agree with me fine, but remember, we are trying to help you with what you asked, please understand. And your baby is too small to sex.
Welcome from Oregon.
1- yes it's an iron cross
2- it's full enough for her and is sunken into the table
3- it's 23° at night and have heat mat underneath when temperature drops.
4- humidity ranges from 50‰min to 80‰ tops.
 

Tidgy's Dad

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Yes, some people believe that tortoises can see through the glass, or don't understand why they can't get through it, or see their own reflection in it and try to fight themselves.
Many people solve this by putting tape around the bottom couple of inches so the tortoise can't see out. it works for them.
Others have encountered no problems with it and large closed topped vivs are often used as they are great for keeping in the humidity.
Impaction with sand or gravel can be fatal.
The end of this article particularly talks about sand and how it can even make horses sick.
http://www.tortoise.org/general/impact.html
 

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