Newbie Set Up

[Kala]

I have found only this one, so far, with a greenhouse top (very similar to what Maggie uses):

Humidifier / Open top enclosure / Sulcata

Hello all, I am fairly new (3 weeks) as a sulcata owner. I’ve done lots of research online and read Tom’s article. I realized I needed to keep a higher humidity within the enclosure so decided to add this humidifier. I have it set to maintain between 70%-90% humidity constantly. It will for a...

tortoiseforum.org

Sorry, there are technical issues with the search, so it's not easy dig out the threads I wanted to show.

Aww brilliant thank you. So I can still get the enclosure I was going to get, but add a greenhouse cover like this person has. That will be easier for us than a huge raised planter, I’ll do that then.

 

[Kala]

Just an FYI, the tin foil doesn't work as good. If the OP had already purchased an enclosure then the tin foil would be an option other than buying a new enclosure. This OP hasn't purchased yet, so they should start with a proper enclosure which will do the job and likely cheaper.

I can’t find the indoor greenhouses you shared earlier, only the greenhouse cover like this person used, so I could add that to the original enclosure (which happens to be the same as this person’s and it looks as though it worked perfectly)

 

[wellington]

I can’t find the indoor greenhouses you shared earlier, only the greenhouse cover like this person used, so I could add that to the original enclosure (which happens to be the same as this person’s and it looks as though it worked perfectly)

Yes, that would be fine.

 

[Tom]

This is the enclosure I’ve been looking at for our hatchling. It measures 3.15ft by 5.15ft and is 30cm high. The hide and ‘viewing’ areas have separate pull out bottoms for easy cleaning.

Those enclosures are not good for any tortoise species at any time in their life. They are too open for babies and too small for any adult. Also, the wood will quickly rot under the necessary dampness in the substrate. You need a closed chamber. In your country they call them vivariums. Outdoor humidity has nothing to do with how dry it will be in a temperature controlled home in a small tortoise enclosure with desiccating electric heat lamps. It can be 100% humidity outside your home and 20% humidity inside the heated tortoise enclosure. Trying to keep an open topped enclosure warm and humid is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof on it. Its impossible. Open topped enclosure only work if the room temperature and humidity are what the tortoise needs. Get a large vivarium.

I have 26 litres of ZooMed ReptiBark (fir bark)on my list, will that be enough to fill it as deep as is needed? Should I stick with just that 1 type of substrate or have different types in different areas? I’ve also seen edible bedding by Komodo (screenshot of ingredients below). Is this worth getting for now as weeds etc are scarce in winter?

Probably not quite enough. You need an 8-10cm layer and it should be kept damp. If you are doing the recommended daily soaks for a baby, they will poop and pee in the soak water and you will never need to replace the substrate. Never use edible bedding. You don't want to teach a tortoise to eat its bedding and also, the necessary dampness will make it rot and mold.

I prefer coco coir for little babies, and then I switch them onto orchid bark when they reach around 9cm.

Terracotta plant tray for water

Small cuttlefish bones

I read that nutrobal calcium & vitamin D3 powder is recommended. Is that something you guys endorse?

Get four terra cotta plant saucers. Two for food and two for water. When one is soiled you can remove it and replace it with a clean one, and then clean the dirty one at your leisure and let it dry in the hot sun for disinfection. They always break at the most inopportune times, so you will be glad you had extras on hand.

Any size cuttlefish bone is fine. With a good varied well balanced diet, your tortoise may ignore the cuttlefish bone for months. That's normal and okay. Just leave it in there anyway.

Get a tortoise safe vitamin supplement and use that once a week or so. Just a tiny pinch mixed in. Get a separate calcium supplement with D3 in it. Use that one around twice a week. Again, just a tiny tiny pinch mixed in thoroughly. You can't overdose your tortoise on the small amount of D3 in these supplements and using it so infrequently. I prefer Herptevite for vitamins and Repcal for calcium, but there are other brands that will work just fine too.

Arcadia solar basking floodlight 75w bulbs
Any recommendations for best lamp?
Do I need a dimmable thermostat? I’m not very technically savvy so the simplest options would be great.

Arcadia ProT5 12% UVB Kit. 24w, is that right?

The Arcadia heat lamp should work. Only YOUR thermometer in YOUR enclosure can tell you if 75 watts is the correct bulb, and what the correct mounting height will be. In a viv, you will likely need a smaller bulb. If you use the plastic greenhouse tent method, a 75 watt will probably work. With an open topped enclosure, you might need 100-150 watts since all your heat will be heating the room more than the enclosure. Check the basking temp by laying a digital thermometer on its back at tortoise shell height directly under the basking bulb and letting it cook there for an hour or more. Temperature should be around 35-37C. Raise or lower the fixture as needed. In a viv with the fixture mounted to the ceiling, you may need to lower or raise the wattage by using a different bulb, or run the bulb through a rheostat (aka: dimmer switch, but NOT a dimming thermostat) to adjust the wattage and get the correct temperature under it.

Don't forget ambient LED lighting. This is necessary to make it look bright and "sunny" in the indoor enclosure. You will likely need ambient heat in your climate too, but that depends on the room temp. I like to keep babies no lower than 20-21C over night, though they can tolerate it lower in most cases. Adults can handle 10C over night with no problem.

You do not need a dimmable thermostat and shouldn't use one. Your heat lamp should be the correct wattage, set to the correct height, and it should be controlled by a timer. It should be on for 12-13 hours a day. You don't want the "sun" turning on and off all day.

Yes on the ProT5 kit. The only way to mount it correctly is with a Solarmeter 6.5 used in YOUR enclosure. Every bulb and every enclosure is different, but in my enclosures, somewhere around 46 to 50 CM above the tortoise is about right. Without a meter, I would err on the high side. If you are getting the tortoise outside for sunshine in warmer weather and using a calcium supplement with D3, then you are triple ensured and will never see any hint of MBD, so go a little higher to the 50 cm recommendation on your bulb mounting height guess. If you get a meter someday, then you can lower the tube as needed.

Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Will make sure there are plenty of things to climb, hide under, play with etc and some safe to eat plants.

Yes, but be sure the tortoise can't/doesn't flip. I use large rocks, logs and other such "hard scape" items. Another tip is to cut branches from edible trees and bushes and throw those in there for cover and grazing. I use mulberry branches, grape vines (no grapes), lavatera branches, hibiscus branches, etc... I replace them every few days or as needed as they wilt.

You'll need a humid hide, which is an opaque plastic tub flipped upside down with a small door hole cut out. Keep the substrate under it damp. Don't use moss.

Plants will be eaten or trampled, so best to keep them in pots and also be sure that store bought plants are not grown with systemic pesticides, as they all are here. Best to grow your own from seeds or cuttings. I like hanging pots in my vivs too. You get the benefit of live plants without using up any more floor space.

Don't be overwhelmed by all of this. Just take one item at time. When you set it all up correctly in the first place, things work flawlessly and tortoise keeping is so easy and fun. When people set things up how the pet shop tells them too, it is frustrating and doesn't work very well for several reasons. We will help you all along the way to make sure you are successful.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Just an FYI, the tin foil doesn't work as good. If the OP had already purchased an enclosure then the tin foil would be an option other than buying a new enclosure. This OP hasn't purchased yet, so they should start with a proper enclosure which will do the job and likely cheaper.

Agree.

Noted on a tin foil, I have seen once on the forum and it did the job. And it worked for me for a while. When search will be working again, I'll check older threads.

 

[Sarah2020]

Just to add to the emense amount of info. If you search swell replies you can find large enclosed enclosures I did add an extension on the back to make it larger. I use orchid bark for substrate also bought from them.

VivExotic Repti Home Large Grey Vivarium

Compact large grey vivarium for medium-sized reptiles Easy to assemble flat-pack kit Large, heat-toughened glass doors

www.reptiles.swelluk.com

 

[Kala]

Those enclosures are not good for any tortoise species at any time in their life. They are too open for babies and too small for any adult. Also, the wood will quickly rot under the necessary dampness in the substrate. You need a closed chamber. In your country they call them vivariums. Outdoor humidity has nothing to do with how dry it will be in a temperature controlled home in a small tortoise enclosure with desiccating electric heat lamps. It can be 100% humidity outside your home and 20% humidity inside the heated tortoise enclosure. Trying to keep an open topped enclosure warm and humid is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof on it. Its impossible. Open topped enclosure only work if the room temperature and humidity are what the tortoise needs. Get a large vivarium.


Probably not quite enough. You need an 8-10cm layer and it should be kept damp. If you are doing the recommended daily soaks for a baby, they will poop and pee in the soak water and you will never need to replace the substrate. Never use edible bedding. You don't want to teach a tortoise to eat its bedding and also, the necessary dampness will make it rot and mold.

I prefer coco coir for little babies, and then I switch them onto orchid bark when they reach around 9cm.


Get four terra cotta plant saucers. Two for food and two for water. When one is soiled you can remove it and replace it with a clean one, and then clean the dirty one at your leisure and let it dry in the hot sun for disinfection. They always break at the most inopportune times, so you will be glad you had extras on hand.

Any size cuttlefish bone is fine. With a good varied well balanced diet, your tortoise may ignore the cuttlefish bone for months. That's normal and okay. Just leave it in there anyway.

Get a tortoise safe vitamin supplement and use that once a week or so. Just a tiny pinch mixed in. Get a separate calcium supplement with D3 in it. Use that one around twice a week. Again, just a tiny tiny pinch mixed in thoroughly. You can't overdose your tortoise on the small amount of D3 in these supplements and using it so infrequently. I prefer Herptevite for vitamins and Repcal for calcium, but there are other brands that will work just fine too.


The Arcadia heat lamp should work. Only YOUR thermometer in YOUR enclosure can tell you if 75 watts is the correct bulb, and what the correct mounting height will be. In a viv, you will likely need a smaller bulb. If you use the plastic greenhouse tent method, a 75 watt will probably work. With an open topped enclosure, you might need 100-150 watts since all your heat will be heating the room more than the enclosure. Check the basking temp by laying a digital thermometer on its back at tortoise shell height directly under the basking bulb and letting it cook there for an hour or more. Temperature should be around 35-37C. Raise or lower the fixture as needed. In a viv with the fixture mounted to the ceiling, you may need to lower or raise the wattage by using a different bulb, or run the bulb through a rheostat (aka: dimmer switch, but NOT a dimming thermostat) to adjust the wattage and get the correct temperature under it.

Don't forget ambient LED lighting. This is necessary to make it look bright and "sunny" in the indoor enclosure. You will likely need ambient heat in your climate too, but that depends on the room temp. I like to keep babies no lower than 20-21C over night, though they can tolerate it lower in most cases. Adults can handle 10C over night with no problem.

You do not need a dimmable thermostat and shouldn't use one. Your heat lamp should be the correct wattage, set to the correct height, and it should be controlled by a timer. It should be on for 12-13 hours a day. You don't want the "sun" turning on and off all day.

Yes on the ProT5 kit. The only way to mount it correctly is with a Solarmeter 6.5 used in YOUR enclosure. Every bulb and every enclosure is different, but in my enclosures, somewhere around 46 to 50 CM above the tortoise is about right. Without a meter, I would err on the high side. If you are getting the tortoise outside for sunshine in warmer weather and using a calcium supplement with D3, then you are triple ensured and will never see any hint of MBD, so go a little higher to the 50 cm recommendation on your bulb mounting height guess. If you get a meter someday, then you can lower the tube as needed.

Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Yes, but be sure the tortoise can't/doesn't flip. I use large rocks, logs and other such "hard scape" items. Another tip is to cut branches from edible trees and bushes and throw those in there for cover and grazing. I use mulberry branches, grape vines (no grapes), lavatera branches, hibiscus branches, etc... I replace them every few days or as needed as they wilt.

You'll need a humid hide, which is an opaque plastic tub flipped upside down with a small door hole cut out. Keep the substrate under it damp. Don't use moss.

Plants will be eaten or trampled, so best to keep them in pots and also be sure that store bought plants are not grown with systemic pesticides, as they all are here. Best to grow your own from seeds or cuttings. I like hanging pots in my vivs too. You get the benefit of live plants without using up any more floor space.

Don't be overwhelmed by all of this. Just take one item at time. When you set it all up correctly in the first place, things work flawlessly and tortoise keeping is so easy and fun. When people set things up how the pet shop tells them too, it is frustrating and doesn't work very well for several reasons. We will help you all along the way to make sure you are successful.

Thank you so much. Do you mean a vivarium like this? They all seem so much smaller than the tortoise tables!

https://www.thepetexpress.co.uk/reptile-vivariums/habistat-standard-vivarium-l122-x-d46-x-h46cm-48-x-18-x-18-oak/

 

[Kala]

Thank you so much. Do you mean a vivarium like this? They all seem so much smaller than the tortoise tables!

https://www.thepetexpress.co.uk/reptile-vivariums/habistat-standard-vivarium-l122-x-d46-x-h46cm-48-x-18-x-18-oak/

Or this one https://provivs.co.uk/glass-sided-150cm-x-45cm-x-45cm--60x18x18-flat-packed-vivarium-5ft-2103-p.asp

But I can’t see how I can hang the bulbs as they all have solid wooden lids

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

In vivariums you have to put all the heating/lightning inside, screwing them to the top. It's rather easy with Arcadia proT5 - screw the brackets and "click in" the fixture. For the basking lamp there are sockets with mounting bracket too.

 

[Kala]

Just to add to the emense amount of info. If you search swell replies you can find large enclosed enclosures I did add an extension on the back to make it larger. I use orchid bark for substrate also bought from them.

VivExotic Repti Home Large Grey Vivarium

Compact large grey vivarium for medium-sized reptiles Easy to assemble flat-pack kit Large, heat-toughened glass doors

www.reptiles.swelluk.com

Thank you, I did look at them but they’re much smaller than everybody is saying the enclosure needs to be. How did you add an extension on? Their orchid bark is much cheaper than Amazon, thank you! Will get that from them when we move on from coco coir

 

[Kala]

In vivariums you have to put all the heating/lightning inside, screwing them to the top. It's rather easy with Arcadia proT5 - screw the brackets and "click in" the fixture. For the basking lamp there are sockets with mounting bracket too.

I really struggle with ‘hands on’ things that others find easy as I’m dyspraxic, so my hand eye coordination is terrible and I find instructions very difficult to follow. I have to spend more money than most people on so many things to keep them as simple as possible for me. I also can’t tell you how much I’ve spent on handymen to hang pictures/curtain poles, build flat packs etc 🙈😅 I think that’s why I was drawn to the original enclosure, because I could just hang a bulb from the adjustable stand attached.

Of course I don’t want to cut any corners, I want to make sure our tortoise has the best start possible. I just know when people say ‘oh it’s easy to rustle up this, or adjust that…’ I’ll end up in a mess 😂

Do the vivariums come ready to just click things on the roof? Is the mounting bracket something you need a drill for? That kind of DIY?

 

[Tom]

Thank you so much. Do you mean a vivarium like this? They all seem so much smaller than the tortoise tables!

https://www.thepetexpress.co.uk/reptile-vivariums/habistat-standard-vivarium-l122-x-d46-x-h46cm-48-x-18-x-18-oak/

That is the right style of enclosure, but that one is too small. They make big ones, and there is at least one UK company that makes jumbo custom ones for a reasonable price.

Its best to use one made of expanded PVC sheets, but if you can't find that, sealed wood will have to do.

I hang the lights inside my enclosures using simple coffee cup holder hooks that you can buy at any hardware store. I drill a small pilot hole and then just screw them in by hand and hang my lights from them. Having the heating and lighting inside makes it all MUCH more efficient and much better for the tortoise.

 

[wellington]

Agree.

Noted on a tin foil, I have seen once on the forum and it did the job. And it worked for me for a while. When search will be working again, I'll check older threads.

It can work, but not as good. Any opening and the heat goes out and humidity too. It's a good quick fix too, better than not using anything to cover.

 

[Sarah2020]

Thank you, I did look at them but they’re much smaller than everybody is saying the enclosure needs to be. How did you add an extension on? Their orchid bark is much cheaper than Amazon, thank you! Will get that from them when we move on from coco coir

To make it easy you can start with an enclosed vivarium and get settled and then enlarge as the tortoise grows. FYI I just took the back panel off and added an extension on the back. I had to make pilot holes in the ceiling for the uvb and the backing lamp and then screw in. There are holes in the back for cables to be fed through. There is a lot of kit and set up but it is worth getting it right for a healthy content shelled warrior 🐢

 

[Cathie G]

I think I’ll get coco coir then as 75L of that is £16, as opposed to £25 for 26L of reptibark. £100 every couple of weeks is a lot just for the substrate.

Would this raised planter with greenhouse cover be ok? It’s a lot smaller than the enclosure (3.7 x 2ft) but still big enough for a hatchling I’d assume? And I’d still be able to fit the UVB strip?

With the lamp; when you say it can be put on the mesh lid, I thought the enclosure needed to be closed without a mesh lid? Or do you mean just not wire mesh? Sorry, getting a little bit confused with everything.

You don't have to change the substrate often. If at all.

 

[Cathie G]

You don't have to change the substrate often. If at all.

Just clean it like you would a litter box. Pick up the droppings etc. You can also wash the repti bark if you want and let it dry in the sun. But since you have a hatchling you probably won't have to do a complete change for a long while.🤗

 

[Kala]

Just clean it like you would a litter box. Pick up the droppings etc. You can also wash the repti bark if you want and let it dry in the sun. But since you have a hatchling you probably won't have to do a complete change for a long while.🤗

Great news, thank you! I’d read that it needed to be changed completely every 2-3 weeks so was starting to panic a little 😅

 

[Cathie G]

Great news, thank you! I’d read that it needed to be changed completely every 2-3 weeks so was starting to panic a little 😅

I think you'll find others here agree that it really doesn't have to be changed that often especially since you have a hatchling Russian. They're teeny little titans.🤗

 

[wellington]

Great news, thank you! I’d read that it needed to be changed completely every 2-3 weeks so was starting to panic a little 😅

Spot clean and you shouldn't have to change it for at least a year and can even last longer
If you bake it 200-250 for 3- 4 hours it will hold off the tiny bugs that a lot of us get. I used to bake mine and they stayed away for a long time.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I really struggle with ‘hands on’ things that others find easy as I’m dyspraxic, so my hand eye coordination is terrible and I find instructions very difficult to follow. I have to spend more money than most people on so many things to keep them as simple as possible for me. I also can’t tell you how much I’ve spent on handymen to hang pictures/curtain poles, build flat packs etc 🙈😅 I think that’s why I was drawn to the original enclosure, because I could just hang a bulb from the adjustable stand attached.

Of course I don’t want to cut any corners, I want to make sure our tortoise has the best start possible. I just know when people say ‘oh it’s easy to rustle up this, or adjust that…’ I’ll end up in a mess 😂

Do the vivariums come ready to just click things on the roof? Is the mounting bracket something you need a drill for? That kind of DIY?

Some vivarium makers can make a "custom build" for you and preinstall lightning and heating, also they can assemble vivarium after delivery. All of this comes with an extra price, unfortunately.

You can look at this site for PVC vivariums, mentioned by Tom: https://viperia.co.uk/ The price is, somewhat, skyrocketing but it worths investing if you don't have space for an outdoor pen.