Orchard Grass Hay for DT, stems and all?

[MoreCowbellAz]

I've long given my 4 year old DT lots of fresh grasses, grassland pellets, etc., all of which he loves, but only now am starting with orchard grass hay. I chopped some up yesterday into maybe 3mm pieces, dampened, and he loved it all by itself. Even with orchard grass hay, I noticed there's far more/bigger stems than what you'd see in just regular grass clippings for instance. That raised a curiosity, how in the heck do tortoises eat hay just in a pile, not cut up or sorted (stems from smaller parts)? Even with this orchard grass hay, there's lots of thicker stems and whatnot that I can't see them just biting through like they would a leave for example, seems like that could be a choking hazard. Dry, some of those stems are tough to cut even with scissors. Do they just work around the stems and eat the easy parts, and somehow know to now try to swallow a huge, long stems?

My DT is 4 years old, about 7.25", about 2.5 lbs.

 

[Tom]

I've long given my 4 year old DT lots of fresh grasses, grassland pellets, etc., all of which he loves, but only now am starting with orchard grass hay. I chopped some up yesterday into maybe 3mm pieces, dampened, and he loved it all by itself. Even with orchard grass hay, I noticed there's far more/bigger stems than what you'd see in just regular grass clippings for instance. That raised a curiosity, how in the heck do tortoises eat hay just in a pile, not cut up or sorted (stems from smaller parts)? Even with this orchard grass hay, there's lots of thicker stems and whatnot that I can't see them just biting through like they would a leave for example, seems like that could be a choking hazard. Dry, some of those stems are tough to cut even with scissors. Do they just work around the stems and eat the easy parts, and somehow know to now try to swallow a huge, long stems?

My DT is 4 years old, about 7.25", about 2.5 lbs.

Be careful. Hay is great for sulcatas and true SA leopards, but some species can get impacted on too much of it. Chopping it up and re-hydrating it helps. I would also mix it with other greens and be sure you are also feeding lots of opuntia pads for their fiber and lubricity. I would start with small amounts of the hay mixed in with the normal greens and watch the bowel movements over a period of weeks. I'd also up the soaks to ensure good hydration and to make sure there is movement in the GI tract.

I've not seen a DT get impacted on hay, but most people don't feed them hay. It can/should be a good food supplement for them, but do be careful with it.

 

[MoreCowbellAz]

Be careful. Hay is great for sulcatas and true SA leopards, but some species can get impacted on too much of it. Chopping it up and re-hydrating it helps. I would also mix it with other greens and be sure you are also feeding lots of opuntia pads for their fiber and lubricity. I would start with small amounts of the hay mixed in with the normal greens and watch the bowel movements over a period of weeks. I'd also up the soaks to ensure good hydration and to make sure there is movement in the GI tract.

I've not seen a DT get impacted on hay, but most people don't feed them hay. It can/should be a good food supplement for them, but do be careful with it.

Ok very good to know, thanks. I thought orchard grass hay was common for DT's.........see as much as I try to absorb all this info I still get it wrong sometimes lol. I'll mix it in rather than give him it to him straight. He does get opuntia at least 3 times a week, more if he's in the mood to eat right from the pad (either he eats the pad directly or I chop it up and mix it with his greens and grassland pellets and Mazuri).

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm wondering if your hay really IS 'orchard grass' hay. Orchard grass is just very large blades of grass, not stemmy at all.

 

[MoreCowbellAz]

Well now you've got me wondering. This is definitely not just blades of grass.

 

[MoreCowbellAz]

What is a good vendor that would have "correct" orchard grass hay that I could compare to? It's not that expensive, if I have to toss what I got that's ok, he wouldn't be eating that much of it either way. I got Oxbow Orchard Grass Hay, in the package it looked similar to what I've seen in other feed stores. But I haven't searched far and wide, so maybe I'm on the wrong track a little.

 

[Yvonne G]

That Oxbow stuff is packaged and sits on shelves in warehouses for too long. Look in your yellow pages for feed stores and call around to see where you can buy it. A lot of feed stores will let you come and just scrape up the 'leavings' around the stacks of bales and won't even charge you.

 

[TammyJ]

It seems to me that your tortoise would be just fine without any of that thick-stemmed hay anyway.

 

[Tom]

He does get opuntia at least 3 times a week, more if he's in the mood to eat right from the pad (either he eats the pad directly or I chop it up and mix it with his greens and grassland pellets and Mazuri).

Don't chop up cactus pads or other "hard" foods. Let him eat the pads whole, or blend it up in a food processor and mix with other stuff.

Public Service Announcement - Tortoise Food Chunks

I was reminded today that not everyone knows that "hard" foods like opuntia, cucumber, carrots, or this time of year, pumpkin should not be cut up and fed in chunks. Chunks of these types of food will be swallowed whole by tortoises and can cause them to choke to death. It doesn't happen every...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[MoreCowbellAz]

Maybe I need to refine my approach there with the chopped up cactus, I was cognizant of that PSA article (seems logical), but since I don't have a food processor I cut it up into very small pieces about 2mm or less. Still too large? I could invest in a food processor, or the grating idea (I never thought of that). The pieces he bites off himself are at least 5 times the size of what I cut up, but regardless I certainly don't want to introduce any risks.

Sounds like I could back off the orchard grass hay idea, sparingly at most. I had it in my head that was good for DT's, dried grasses and all we hear a lot about on here, so I'm glad I brought it up.

Just when I think I have a good concept of what little DT needs, I learn something and need to recalibrate my brain. lol. Anyway, if you want to critique his diet he frequently gets mulberry leaves, hibiscus, several types of opuntia, and grasses of bermuda, rye, and cat grass/wheat grass. Prob 50% grass, maybe more if you consider the grassland pellets I give him a couple times a week and Mazuri about every 10 days, I moisten and mix those into his regular "salad". Weaving into that when as the season permits he gets endive/escarole, grape leafs, dandelion, thistles, When blossoms are available he gets hibiscus and palo verde.

Everything above is home grown except the endive/escarole. I'm probably forgetting something, but those are the mainstays.

 

[Tom]

Maybe I need to refine my approach there with the chopped up cactus, I was cognizant of that PSA article (seems logical), but since I don't have a food processor I cut it up into very small pieces about 2mm or less. Still too large? I could invest in a food processor, or the grating idea (I never thought of that). The pieces he bites off himself are at least 5 times the size of what I cut up, but regardless I certainly don't want to introduce any risks.

Sounds like I could back off the orchard grass hay idea, sparingly at most. I had it in my head that was good for DT's, dried grasses and all we hear a lot about on here, so I'm glad I brought it up.

Just when I think I have a good concept of what little DT needs, I learn something and need to recalibrate my brain. lol. Anyway, if you want to critique his diet he frequently gets mulberry leaves, hibiscus, several types of opuntia, and grasses of bermuda, rye, and cat grass/wheat grass. Prob 50% grass, maybe more if you consider the grassland pellets I give him a couple times a week and Mazuri about every 10 days, I moisten and mix those into his regular "salad". Weaving into that when as the season permits he gets endive/escarole, grape leafs, dandelion, thistles, When blossoms are available he gets hibiscus and palo verde.

Everything above is home grown except the endive/escarole. I'm probably forgetting something, but those are the mainstays.

Diet sounds great. I don't know what palo verde is though...

Pieces much smaller than what he can bite off should be safe, but why risk it. Just feed whole pads. Its easier for you and better for the tortoise. Its a good work out for their mouth and neck muscles and keeps their beak in good shape too. I feed whole pads, small ones, to brand new hatchlings. No need to cut it up.

 

[orgetorix]

I always feed my DT the whole pads as well. You may be surprised at how adept they are at chomping them. Plus, they don't get all slimy and gross.