Overhead vs. Belly Heat

[MPRC]

Hello all! I am new to tortoise ownership and I haven't been able to find any definitive information regarding the best heat methods for my new little Redfoot.

She is in a 3x4ft rabbit cage with a plastic tray bottom and a few inches of cypress mulch. I've just covered the sides to help keep in the humidity and we are averaging about 80 in the shady side and 86 in the sun right now without the aid of a heat lamp or heat mat during the day (nights have been about 75) and she's getting unfiltered sunlight for UVB. (I've also got a megaray UVB light for shady days or days that she needs to be indoors).

My question is that once we do need to provide supplementary heat is it better to heat her from above or below - or does it not matter as long as the temps and humidity are correct? I have heat lamps and heat pads from my many years of lizard husbandry.

Forgive me if this has been discussed ad naseaum, I'm new here and couldn't find the information that I seek.

Also here is a gratuitous Ruby photo, because I believe in the power of bribing you kind folks for your opinions.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

From what I understand, tortoises need to be heated from above....When they need to be heated.
However, I know that in really cold weather some owners use PIG blankets on the ground.
My baby RF never needed extra heat while living in a closed chamber. My strip UVB light gave off a tiny bit of heat and the whole thing was 77-85 degrees. While it maintained a very important 80+ percent humidity.
You'll find that RF don't like to be very hot. Like over 85-86. They will retreat and come out after it is cooler.

 

[Yvonne G]

From above is usually the best, but if you direct it towards a smooth rock on the ground, they do benefit from sitting on a warm rock. Your little guy is very pretty. Be sure to keep the humidity up so the shell continues to grow smoothly.

 

[MPRC]

Thanks for the replies! I think humidity is going to be far more of a battle than the heating aspect of things. I've already noticed her retreating to the cool end of the cage during the heat of the day and being more active in the cooler parts of the day. I'm used to my bearded dragon who would prefer to be 120 degrees if I let him. I think he boiled all of his good sense out of his tiny brain years ago.

When she came to be she was given a tiny water dish that she couldn't get into and her mulch was completely dry so I've been overhauling things by wrapping the cage, lightly moistening the mulch and providing a moist hide and a big pie pan that she has been gleefully dancing around in. I also have a slow drip system going right now too.

My old hygrometer just bit the dust so I'm replacing it on Saturday when I go to town. I don't think I'm getting above 70%-ish right now so there might be a bit more tweaking, but it has to be better than what she had.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Beardies and uromastyx are one thing. Redfoot are another. I would not allow my Redfoot to be subjected to anymore than 88-90 degrees without shade.
Covering most of the top and moistening the substrate works best for humidity.

 

[Mantissa3]

I recently had a consultation for Gibby, my 3-year old redfoot who recently passed away (unecessarily due to really pathetic vet case management- but that is another thread on TFO).

The vet I consulted with via phone is Dr. Driggers in Arizona. He's been hands-on with redfoots for over two decades, and also has an exclusive herp and avian Practice.

He explained to me that when our babies are little like your Ruby seems to be right now, heating from the bottom of the substrate (look at some of the care sheets for installing heating rope under the cypress mulch) is fine, because the babies bury up for humidity and heat in the wild - the decomposing forest mulch in South American provides "compost heat" and they bury up in it in the wild and are fine, for a while.

However, once they start "thickening" and growing denser with age, their lungs are completely along the TOPS of their shells, so their organs (all along the bottom of their shells) get warmed from underneath them, but the air they are breathing can be too cold if you don't add heat from above.

Also- and this is now being discovered and talked about in rf medical circles- redfoots have full color spectrum vision- that means they can actually see reds and red lights. Some redfoots have been known to not get adequate sleep cycles from using red heat bulbs- they are restless and semi-awake all night from the red light and some even eat substrate during the night being in a semi-waking state. Of course some die from the substrate ingestion, or become very sick and their owners and vets never figure out why.

It's really important to not overdue the heat under them and "cook" or adversely affect the growth of their internal organs, while still providing warm air above their lungs- as Yvonne G said- warming from above them as the sun does, so the air they breathe is warm too, especially as their shells grow taller and they become heavier.

I use a CHE now, for all my babies, whereas I only used under-substrate heating ropes on thermostats when my first baby Gibby was still a tiny guy- he buried in the warm substrate and, well, slept like a baby for more than a year.

At 1 1/2 years, I noticed that every time he came out of his habitat, he would burrow into me or heat-seek, which is why we added the overhead heating- he became to tall and thick to breath warm air from the under soil/mulch heaters.

By the way- thanks for posting and I hope you post more pictures of little Ruby as "she/he" grows. What an incredibly beautiful little baby you have.
Karen

 

[MPRC]

Thanks for your 2 cents Karen. I'm sorry to hear about Gibby.

Currently I have a human heat pad on a rheostat situated under her favorite cave that is maintaining about 75 degrees at night. During the day here it has been warm enough to not require additional overhead heat. Once things cool off it looks like I'll likely be swapping over to a CHE (I personally hate those red bulbs, they made my iguana a cranky jerk because he wasn't sleeping).

Thanks all for your input. Here's a gratuitous Ruby photo for all of your help! (Apparently Mazuri tastes best once it's been stomped)

 

[Mantissa3]

Thanks for your 2 cents Karen. I'm sorry to hear about Gibby.

Currently I have a human heat pad on a rheostat situated under her favorite cave that is maintaining about 75 degrees at night. During the day here it has been warm enough to not require additional overhead heat. Once things cool off it looks like I'll likely be swapping over to a CHE (I personally hate those red bulbs, they made my iguana a cranky jerk because he wasn't sleeping).

Thanks all for your input. Here's a gratuitous Ruby photo for all of your help! (Apparently Mazuri tastes best once it's been stomped)

Ruby is absolutely magnificent- and you are doing everything right by "hearing all the voices" and then figuring out the best way to care for this lovely baby that fits in with your household, belief system about Ruby, and the way you and your family lives. Ruby is indeed VERY interested in that smashed Mazuri pellet! LOL