please see ids and sex of my three greek

[lq558]

please see ids and sex of my three greek

 

[lq558]

Most important, please also tell me do all of them need hibernation? Please help me to see the ids and sex of my three Greeks. Because I am not sure about their subspecies: There is male one has some red color on his head and legs, I think it is a Iberia, he is always on the left in all the pictures. I think the golden one is female tg.terrestris, I always put her on the right side. In the middle is a female Iberia.

 

[GBtortoises]

The two on either side appear to be Middle Eastern subspecies, neither is Ibera. Most of the recently imported Middle Eastern Greeks are coming from Jordan, Libya and western-most Turkey. You Ibera in the middle is most likely from southern or southwestern Turkey based on it's coloration and patterns. It might also be considered by some to be an Antakyan Greek, by others an Ibera. Some consider them to be one in the same. The Middle Eastern Greek complex is a very confusing, ever changing and and is some cases, arguable group of subspecies. Depending upon what source of identification you choose to accept there may be anywhere from a half dozen to over 14 subspecies. Given the fact that many are now being cross bred in captivity their offspring will only confuse indentification even more in captivity. With the Greek complex it's more important to know what area of their vast range that an individual is from rather than it is the animals specific subspecies at this point. The three main areas that Greeks are found is North Africa, the Middle East and Northern Mediterranean. The last is considered by most to be completely comprised of Ibera making it the easiest to identify. The Middle Eastern region is full of confusion in terms of accurate identification of subspecies. Generally, different looking animals come from different areas. But this is also not 100% accurate because some key features are shared throughout different regions of their range and human intervention (collection, transport) has also been taking place for hundreds, if not thousands of years. The North African subspecies, of which there are only currently a few recognized, are much less common in captivity, especially in the North America and for the most part are much more distinguishable than the Middle Eastern subspecies. None of them need to brumate (hibernate). Northern races do in the wild, primarily Ibera. But Middle Eastern and North African subspecies do not.

 

[lq558]

Thank you very very much, dear GBtortoise! I learn a lot from you. You also saved my tortoises, because I want to force them to hibernate this coming winter. If you have not told me their subspecies, they may die during the cold temperature. I wanted to make the middle one to hibernate last November, but her nose had a lot of water coming out when the temperature down to 15 'c degree. So I stopped her hibernation and wanted her to do this winter.
Another question, you don't think the right side golden one is a t.g.terrestris? I heard that all the golden ones, syrian greek or other, maybe also other middle east greeks, should also need a short period hibernation. It is not correct? Thank you again!