Ponce's Pics and Diet - a Vic Morgan 2nd Gen. mee

[algoroth1]

Dear All,
I've attached three photos of Ponce, our mee from Vic Morgan's first 2nd generation captive bred clutch hatched one year ago (to make it clearer, these are babies whose parents were themselves captive bred). While he was small (33 grams at 20 days), he may have caught up with his wild cousins in terms of rate of growth. At 11 months he is over 170 grams and, thank God, doing well.
Vic had asked about his diet - At first I followed Vic's care sheet giving a wide variety of fruits and veggies. I found that he was pretty choosy. Things he eats with gusto: Green and yellow squash (I still shred it--see photo), collard greens, watercress, a little cooked sweet potato and various lettuces. As I learned more about the mee in the wild I discovered that between 60-70% of their diet in the wild is various forms of Alocasia. I now grow it in his enclosure (they also provide some extra shade so long as he can't reach a leaf) and if given a choice of foods he will always go for the Alocasia.
Once a week I give him four wetted pellets of Masuri. He goes nuts for it and will literally grab it out of my hand if I don't put it on his plate fast enough. I have the feeling its like Cap'n Crunch for tortoises.
I also leave a couple of pieces of cuttlebone out all the time, though I've never witnessed him chewing on it.
Please take a look at the photos and tell me what you think. Both carpace and plastron have developed some very pretty "whorls", I think.
My best to all and thanks to Vic for helping to ensure the future of this species!
Ron

 

[wellington]

I don't know anything about your species. I just had to say he looks fantastic and love the coloring/pattern on his shell, top and bottom. Will s/he hold those into adulthood? Looks like your doing a fantastic job.

 

[algoroth1]

I don't know anything about your species. I just had to say he looks fantastic and love the coloring/pattern on his shell, top and bottom. Will s/he hold those into adulthood? Looks like your doing a fantastic job.

Thanks for your compliments! The markings will probably fade as he reaches adulthood (maybe a decade or two from now Will try to post photos periodically. All the best.

 

[Millerlite]

Looking good, growing great

 

[emysbreeder]

Dear All,
I've attached three photos of Ponce, our mee from Vic Morgan's first 2nd generation captive bred clutch hatched one year ago (to make it clearer, these are babies whose parents were themselves captive bred). While he was small (33 grams at 20 days), he may have caught up with his wild cousins in terms of rate of growth. At 11 months he is over 170 grams and, thank God, doing well.
Vic had asked about his diet - At first I followed Vic's care sheet giving a wide variety of fruits and veggies. I found that he was pretty choosy. Things he eats with gusto: Green and yellow squash (I still shred it--see photo), collard greens, watercress, a little cooked sweet potato and various lettuces. As I learned more about the mee in the wild I discovered that between 60-70% of their diet in the wild is various forms of Alocasia. I now grow it in his enclosure (they also provide some extra shade so long as he can't reach a leaf) and if given a choice of foods he will always go for the Alocasia.
Once a week I give him four wetted pellets of Masuri. He goes nuts for it and will literally grab it out of my hand if I don't put it on his plate fast enough. I have the feeling its like Cap'n Crunch for tortoises.
I also leave a couple of pieces of cuttlebone out all the time, though I've never witnessed him chewing on it.
Please take a look at the photos and tell me what you think. Both carpace and plastron have developed some very pretty "whorls", I think.
My best to all and thanks to Vic for helping to ensure the future of this species!
Ron

...........Ron, You have done a great job of growing the baby e.e up. The weight is higher than I expected at this age without a deformed Carapace. In fact the shell is perfect. The front legs have the pine cone look but I've never seen a captive born and raised Mt.Tort. eather ssp. that did not look like that to some degree. You have set a new standard of excellence for shell development in raising captive born Manouria. Outstanding work! Vic

 

[algoroth1]

Dear All,
I've attached three photos of Ponce, our mee from Vic Morgan's first 2nd generation captive bred clutch hatched one year ago (to make it clearer, these are babies whose parents were themselves captive bred). While he was small (33 grams at 20 days), he may have caught up with his wild cousins in terms of rate of growth. At 11 months he is over 170 grams and, thank God, doing well.
Vic had asked about his diet - At first I followed Vic's care sheet giving a wide variety of fruits and veggies. I found that he was pretty choosy. Things he eats with gusto: Green and yellow squash (I still shred it--see photo), collard greens, watercress, a little cooked sweet potato and various lettuces. As I learned more about the mee in the wild I discovered that between 60-70% of their diet in the wild is various forms of Alocasia. I now grow it in his enclosure (they also provide some extra shade so long as he can't reach a leaf) and if given a choice of foods he will always go for the Alocasia.
Once a week I give him four wetted pellets of Masuri. He goes nuts for it and will literally grab it out of my hand if I don't put it on his plate fast enough. I have the feeling its like Cap'n Crunch for tortoises.
I also leave a couple of pieces of cuttlebone out all the time, though I've never witnessed him chewing on it.
Please take a look at the photos and tell me what you think. Both carpace and plastron have developed some very pretty "whorls", I think.
My best to all and thanks to Vic for helping to ensure the future of this species!
Ron

...........Ron, You have done a great job of growing the baby e.e up. The weight is higher than I expected at this age without a deformed Carapace. In fact the shell is perfect. The front legs have the pine cone look but I've never seen a captive born and raised Mt.Tort. eather ssp. that did not look like that to some degree. You have set a new standard of excellence for shell development in raising captive born Manouria. Outstanding work! Vic

Vic - Thanks for those overly kind words. They made me feel very good whether I deserved them or not!
To what do you attribute that pine cone look on the front legs? I've seen it developing but can't figure out why. I wonder if it is just environment. For instance, since they live near water in the wild but also among rocks and boulders, is it possible that in foraging their front legs are subject to more work than in captivity and therefore get rubbed down/flattened in the wild? Do you see any difference in the spikes on your animals that live in pens vs. those that roam the back "jungle" and can forage for food? Just wondering.
All the best and hope everything "hatches" well!
Ron

 

[harris]

Great thread. And I thought I was the only one that still had to shred the squash for them to eat it! They're over 6yrs old now.

 

[emysbreeder]

Dear All,
I've attached three photos of Ponce, our mee from Vic Morgan's first 2nd generation captive bred clutch hatched one year ago (to make it clearer, these are babies whose parents were themselves captive bred). While he was small (33 grams at 20 days), he may have caught up with his wild cousins in terms of rate of growth. At 11 months he is over 170 grams and, thank God, doing well.
Vic had asked about his diet - At first I followed Vic's care sheet giving a wide variety of fruits and veggies. I found that he was pretty choosy. Things he eats with gusto: Green and yellow squash (I still shred it--see photo), collard greens, watercress, a little cooked sweet potato and various lettuces. As I learned more about the mee in the wild I discovered that between 60-70% of their diet in the wild is various forms of Alocasia. I now grow it in his enclosure (they also provide some extra shade so long as he can't reach a leaf) and if given a choice of foods he will always go for the Alocasia.
Once a week I give him four wetted pellets of Masuri. He goes nuts for it and will literally grab it out of my hand if I don't put it on his plate fast enough. I have the feeling its like Cap'n Crunch for tortoises.
I also leave a couple of pieces of cuttlebone out all the time, though I've never witnessed him chewing on it.
Please take a look at the photos and tell me what you think. Both carpace and plastron have developed some very pretty "whorls", I think.
My best to all and thanks to Vic for helping to ensure the future of this species!
Ron

...........Ron, You have done a great job of growing the baby e.e up. The weight is higher than I expected at this age without a deformed Carapace. In fact the shell is perfect. The front legs have the pine cone look but I've never seen a captive born and raised Mt.Tort. eather ssp. that did not look like that to some degree. You have set a new standard of excellence for shell development in raising captive born Manouria. Outstanding work! Vic

Vic - Thanks for those overly kind words. They made me feel very good whether I deserved them or not!
To what do you attribute that pine cone look on the front legs? I've seen it developing but can't figure out why. I wonder if it is just environment. For instance, since they live near water in the wild but also among rocks and boulders, is it possible that in foraging their front legs are subject to more work than in captivity and therefore get rubbed down/flattened in the wild? Do you see any difference in the spikes on your animals that live in pens vs. those that roam the back "jungle" and can forage for food? Just wondering.
All the best and hope everything "hatches" well!
Ron

...........I have not figgured this one out,..yet, but It could be just plane over feeding. I remember back when I kept snakes, seeing the hide around or in between the scales was always considered by many as just fat snakes. everyone wanted to get them to breeding size fast. Time would findly tell, fat snakes die young. But they were extreem cases. If you watch tortoises eat they would have to graze or brouse for a long time to get what we just pile up on a plate for them. Who knows, we could speculate all night but, as time goes by we will find out. One thing that does bother me about it is, if a turned up scale is poking them in the eye when they pull their head in. It is of the utmost importance that their legs front and back develope normally so they will not end up with problems later in life holding up their shells or if female two shells at once, sometimes.....VM

 

[algoroth1]

Great thread. And I thought I was the only one that still had to shred the squash for them to eat it! They're over 6yrs old now.

Harris - Anything else you do for them that has/hasn't changed since they were babies? I'm working on giving mine more opportunities to work on their food by not chopping it up except for shredding the squash. Anything leafy I give them whole. Makes them work their front legs to hold or tear it. Would be interested in knowing what changes you've made over time. Thanks!
Ron

---

Dear All,
I've attached three photos of Ponce, our mee from Vic Morgan's first 2nd generation captive bred clutch hatched one year ago (to make it clearer, these are babies whose parents were themselves captive bred). While he was small (33 grams at 20 days), he may have caught up with his wild cousins in terms of rate of growth. At 11 months he is over 170 grams and, thank God, doing well.
Vic had asked about his diet - At first I followed Vic's care sheet giving a wide variety of fruits and veggies. I found that he was pretty choosy. Things he eats with gusto: Green and yellow squash (I still shred it--see photo), collard greens, watercress, a little cooked sweet potato and various lettuces. As I learned more about the mee in the wild I discovered that between 60-70% of their diet in the wild is various forms of Alocasia. I now grow it in his enclosure (they also provide some extra shade so long as he can't reach a leaf) and if given a choice of foods he will always go for the Alocasia.
Once a week I give him four wetted pellets of Masuri. He goes nuts for it and will literally grab it out of my hand if I don't put it on his plate fast enough. I have the feeling its like Cap'n Crunch for tortoises.
I also leave a couple of pieces of cuttlebone out all the time, though I've never witnessed him chewing on it.
Please take a look at the photos and tell me what you think. Both carpace and plastron have developed some very pretty "whorls", I think.
My best to all and thanks to Vic for helping to ensure the future of this species!
Ron

...........Ron, You have done a great job of growing the baby e.e up. The weight is higher than I expected at this age without a deformed Carapace. In fact the shell is perfect. The front legs have the pine cone look but I've never seen a captive born and raised Mt.Tort. eather ssp. that did not look like that to some degree. You have set a new standard of excellence for shell development in raising captive born Manouria. Outstanding work! Vic

Vic - Thanks for those overly kind words. They made me feel very good whether I deserved them or not!
To what do you attribute that pine cone look on the front legs? I've seen it developing but can't figure out why. I wonder if it is just environment. For instance, since they live near water in the wild but also among rocks and boulders, is it possible that in foraging their front legs are subject to more work than in captivity and therefore get rubbed down/flattened in the wild? Do you see any difference in the spikes on your animals that live in pens vs. those that roam the back "jungle" and can forage for food? Just wondering.
All the best and hope everything "hatches" well!
Ron

...........I have not figgured this one out,..yet, but It could be just plane over feeding. I remember back when I kept snakes, seeing the hide around or in between the scales was always considered by many as just fat snakes. everyone wanted to get them to breeding size fast. Time would findly tell, fat snakes die young. But they were extreem cases. If you watch tortoises eat they would have to graze or brouse for a long time to get what we just pile up on a plate for them. Who knows, we could speculate all night but, as time goes by we will find out. One thing that does bother me about it is, if a turned up scale is poking them in the eye when they pull their head in. It is of the utmost importance that their legs front and back develope normally so they will not end up with problems later in life holding up their shells or if female two shells at once, sometimes.....VM

Vic - is there an experiment here we could do without causing any harm to the critters? The real question is probably just how much they need to eat in order to thrive. Is it possible they are like mammalian pets that don't know when to stop and we're not doing them any good by overfeeding them? I wouldn't want to cut back on Ponce's food to see if his spikes settle down in case that's not the cause. On the other hand, maybe the guy who said he feeds his tortoises every other day isn't so off the mark. Food for thought
Ron

 

[Millerlite]

I never chop my guys food either, I will try and get pictures of the front legs to compare, mine are all Vic from Vic Morgan too, so comparing will be all Vic creations lol

 

[algoroth1]

I never chop my guys food either, I will try and get pictures of the front legs to compare, mine are all Vic from Vic Morgan too, so comparing will be all Vic creations lol

Sounds good. I think I'll start a new thread asking all owners of captive bred mees and meps to put up photos of the front legs of their tortoises. We can then get an idea of whether or not anyone has cb's where the plates/spikes on the front legs have stayed more flat. Vic can compare the pics with his wild caught and cb mee's and mep's. If anyone's cb's look closer to the wild caught ones we can find out what diet/enclosure/environment they've had them in and maybe we can learn something!