Post hibernation issues

[Marcushorsfield]

Hi. I am having issue and worried about my horsefield. I got her 2 years ago cc 5 years old from someone who sent her to me with an led lightbulb and the smallest coffee table sized wooden box. That first few months we got the right bulb and substrate etc and kept her inside. She lived under the lamp all day and barely ate. I bathed her most days. During that 1st few months we built an outside place for her (about 6ftx6ft, but she also gets the garden when I'm home). I'd put her out in the sun in the day and bring her into her box at night in the house. After the 1st year when the weather improved she moved outside and was such a happy tort, she then stayed out at night too during the summer. I didn't think I'd ever see her like that (could be a he I actually don't know). Then late Sept she went into hibernation herself. I know someone with a horsefield who said hers had done the same, so I put her in her box and put her in the garage with straw etc. I checked her every few weeks (to see if her limbs were loose or not). When the weather brightened up I took advice from this lady with a horsefield and as she had moved about the box I brought her back to the garden to do the sun in the day box at night thing I had done. I bathed her in warm water to hydrate her as I wasn't expecting her to wake and eat immediately but wanted to get the juices flowing as it were. Anyway, the weather turned again and she's basically not awake properly. She only drinks when I bath her, I have not seen her eat a thing yet. It's been 4 weeks. I've now dug out a slightly bigger thing so that I can get the light on her (I bought the one I had again which is a uva/b and heat in on which I see is not recommended now) and she can have a cooler area. I am fully aware that this enclosure is not suitable for her. I'm treating it like a hospital bed until I know what's wrong (advice from here hopefully and a visit to the vet). I have a fabulous set up that she thrived in before which I want to get her back into, but this d**n British weather is like early spring still and no light! She is so lathargic, lying with her limbs all out. She does go in her shell but not like she was. I thought that was because she woke from hibernation and trusted me 😔.

Please do not give me abuse. I am here for help. I have read some of the sheets and still need some help. When I've posted in other forums in the past I have had very little help and 'read this' attitude only, which doesn't help me when I'm desperate and confused.

A worried tort mummy x

 

[zolasmum]

Hi. I am having issue and worried about my horsefield. I got her 2 years ago cc 5 years old from someone who sent her to me with an led lightbulb and the smallest coffee table sized wooden box. That first few months we got the right bulb and substrate etc and kept her inside. She lived under the lamp all day and barely ate. I bathed her most days. During that 1st few months we built an outside place for her (about 6ftx6ft, but she also gets the garden when I'm home). I'd put her out in the sun in the day and bring her into her box at night in the house. After the 1st year when the weather improved she moved outside and was such a happy tort, she then stayed out at night too during the summer. I didn't think I'd ever see her like that (could be a he I actually don't know). Then late Sept she went into hibernation herself. I know someone with a horsefield who said hers had done the same, so I put her in her box and put her in the garage with straw etc. I checked her every few weeks (to see if her limbs were loose or not). When the weather brightened up I took advice from this lady with a horsefield and as she had moved about the box I brought her back to the garden to do the sun in the day box at night thing I had done. I bathed her in warm water to hydrate her as I wasn't expecting her to wake and eat immediately but wanted to get the juices flowing as it were. Anyway, the weather turned again and she's basically not awake properly. She only drinks when I bath her, I have not seen her eat a thing yet. It's been 4 weeks. I've now dug out a slightly bigger thing so that I can get the light on her (I bought the one I had again which is a uva/b and heat in on which I see is not recommended now) and she can have a cooler area. I am fully aware that this enclosure is not suitable for her. I'm treating it like a hospital bed until I know what's wrong (advice from here hopefully and a visit to the vet). I have a fabulous set up that she thrived in before which I want to get her back into, but this d**n British weather is like early spring still and no light! She is so lathargic, lying with her limbs all out. She does go in her shell but not like she was. I thought that was because she woke from hibernation and trusted me 😔.

Please do not give me abuse. I am here for help. I have read some of the sheets and still need some help. When I've posted in other forums in the past I have had very little help and 'read this' attitude only, which doesn't help me when I'm desperate and confused.

A worried tort mummy x

Dear tort mummy - no-one will be horrible to you here, and people want to help you and your baby. They are kind, and also they know what they are talking about.
I do understand how you feel, but you have come to the right place.
Best wishes from Angie (in Devon)

 

[Marcushorsfield]

Dear tort mummy - no-one will be horrible to you here, and people want to help you and your baby. They are kind, and also they know what they are talking about.
I do understand how you feel, but you have come to the right place.
Best wishes from Angie (in Devon)

Thank you Angie 😊 I hope so, I've been worried about posting. ooo I've just returned from Devon to Berkshire!

 

[zolasmum]

Thank you Angie 😊 I hope so, I've been worried about posting. ooo I've just returned from Devon to Berkshire!

Really don't worry- people are not interested in scoring points off each other, or showing off, and are very patient about explaining things to newcomers - I don't want to try to advise you myself, as I am not at all an expert, only ever having had one tortoise (Zola, who is 23 now) and who is the joy of our lives.
We live on the border between Cornwall and Devon - where were you? I hope you didn't have problems with the floods.
Angie

 

[Marcushorsfield]

Really don't worry- people are not interested in scoring points off each other, or showing off, and are very patient about explaining things to newcomers - I don't want to try to advise you myself, as I am not at all an expert, only ever having had one tortoise (Zola, who is 23 now) and who is the joy of our lives.
We live on the border between Cornwall and Devon - where were you? I hope you didn't have problems with the floods.
Angie

Thank you for being honest, I appreciate it 🙏 23 is still a fairly seasoned tort mumma!

We were near Salcome so not far if you are south too! No we were very lucky with the weather 😀

 

[Tom]

Hi. I am having issue and worried about my horsefield. I got her 2 years ago cc 5 years old from someone who sent her to me with an led lightbulb and the smallest coffee table sized wooden box. That first few months we got the right bulb and substrate etc and kept her inside. She lived under the lamp all day and barely ate. I bathed her most days. During that 1st few months we built an outside place for her (about 6ftx6ft, but she also gets the garden when I'm home). I'd put her out in the sun in the day and bring her into her box at night in the house. After the 1st year when the weather improved she moved outside and was such a happy tort, she then stayed out at night too during the summer. I didn't think I'd ever see her like that (could be a he I actually don't know). Then late Sept she went into hibernation herself. I know someone with a horsefield who said hers had done the same, so I put her in her box and put her in the garage with straw etc. I checked her every few weeks (to see if her limbs were loose or not). When the weather brightened up I took advice from this lady with a horsefield and as she had moved about the box I brought her back to the garden to do the sun in the day box at night thing I had done. I bathed her in warm water to hydrate her as I wasn't expecting her to wake and eat immediately but wanted to get the juices flowing as it were. Anyway, the weather turned again and she's basically not awake properly. She only drinks when I bath her, I have not seen her eat a thing yet. It's been 4 weeks. I've now dug out a slightly bigger thing so that I can get the light on her (I bought the one I had again which is a uva/b and heat in on which I see is not recommended now) and she can have a cooler area. I am fully aware that this enclosure is not suitable for her. I'm treating it like a hospital bed until I know what's wrong (advice from here hopefully and a visit to the vet). I have a fabulous set up that she thrived in before which I want to get her back into, but this d**n British weather is like early spring still and no light! She is so lathargic, lying with her limbs all out. She does go in her shell but not like she was. I thought that was because she woke from hibernation and trusted me 😔.

Please do not give me abuse. I am here for help. I have read some of the sheets and still need some help. When I've posted in other forums in the past I have had very little help and 'read this' attitude only, which doesn't help me when I'm desperate and confused.

A worried tort mummy x

The problem you are having is because the tortoise's environment and temperatures are not correct. To save the tortoise you have to fix these things. The best way to learn to fix these thing is to read the instructions on how to set them up correctly. So yes, I want you to read the things I'm going to link for you, but I am NOT dismissing you. Read through the material at least a couple of times to absorb it all, and then PLEASE come back with questions. All your questions. We are here for tortoise conversation, but I make these threads to save hours and hours of my time, so I don't have to repeat the same things to thousands of new people every year.

Start with this one. Near the bottom is a heating and lighting breakdown for you too:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

This one is linked at the bottom of the first one for you, but here it is for convenience. Note the outdoor housing pictures and explanations. THIS is how you get around uncooperative weather:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Finally, if your head hasn't exploded from the first two threads, this thread will explain your brumation mistakes, how to avoid them, and what might be going on. You will gain knowledge and insight from this one that will help you tremendously going forward.

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

We will help you. No one will abuse you or insult you here. That won't help your tortoise, and it won't be tolerated even by us regular members, much less the moderator team. You can breathe a sigh of relief. You have found the help you need and you are among friends now. We might not tell you what you want to hear, but we will tell you what you need to hear, and we will do it nicely and respectfully with the intention of helping you and your tortoise.

 

[Marcushorsfield]

The problem you are having is because the tortoise's environment and temperatures are not correct. To save the tortoise you have to fix these things. The best way to learn to fix these thing is to read the instructions on how to set them up correctly. So yes, I want you to read the things I'm going to link for you, but I am NOT dismissing you. Read through the material at least a couple of times to absorb it all, and then PLEASE come back with questions. All your questions. We are here for tortoise conversation, but I make these threads to save hours and hours of my time, so I don't have to repeat the same things to thousands of new people every year.

Start with this one. Near the bottom is a heating and lighting breakdown for you too:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

This one is linked at the bottom of the first one for you, but here it is for convenience. Note the outdoor housing pictures and explanations. THIS is how you get around uncooperative weather:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Finally, if your head hasn't exploded from the first two threads, this thread will explain your brumation mistakes, how to avoid them, and what might be going on. You will gain knowledge and insight from this one that will help you tremendously going forward.

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

We will help you. No one will abuse you or insult you here. That won't help your tortoise, and it won't be tolerated even by us regular members, much less the moderator team. You can breathe a sigh of relief. You have found the help you need and you are among friends now. We might not tell you what you want to hear, but we will tell you what you need to hear, and we will do it nicely and respectfully with the intention of helping you and your tortoise.

Thank you for your MUCH more detailed reply than I have before had. I read that page after I posted and discovered it to be very different to anything I read when I first got her. I dutifully re-read it so here goes:

I shall get new substrate as we had high grade top soil (which is a sand mix) 😢 - is this okay?

https://internetreptile.com/products/prorep-bark-chips?variant=42476473581816&currency=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpPKiBhDvARIsACn-gzBy9qKHQUZzP8cX0zdToUDKrZ2lT8GOZkH4zb6MX3tmiAHGCFygPfAaAmcGEALw_wcB

How big enclosure are we talking for my approx 7 year old? I can send a pic of her size if needed. Just to note, I am 100% aware her current temporary home is unsuitable, it's an "emergency, not what I thought was going to happen, get her in and under a light" home. Ideally looking for an inside / outside setup (lights in the outside inside area) as my garden is much larger than my house and can take a tortoise building far easier. Night box style if I can.

Point 13 noted - she will not be allowed to use the garden 'supervised', I'll add onto her enclosure.

Is this the flood light I want?

https://internetreptile.com/product...NDahzyEAS_jwczqPw2040v-BsjFrNZC8aAlNOEALw_wcB

And UV

https://internetreptile.com/products/zoo-med-t5ho-reptisun-10?_pos=15&_sid=58ff0c317&_ss=r

Are these uv sensors suitable?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09XK7VKPD/?tag=

To confirm, using the UV light is a once every few days for an hour or so thing, when it's not sunny enough for her to get the rays? I read further on I don't need one if she's getting suitable outside time. Is cloudy uv okay or does it need to be sunny, even if she's in the shade?

I don't know what CFL is and if I'm doing it?

Brumation. I totally ****ed that up following my friends advice on what her tort does. Now to rectify and move forward.

Well I happen to be a profession farmer, however cattle aren't helping me here 😆. I grow my own weeds (I got a pack of tortoise weeds recommended by someone once), pansy's and forage for dandelions and thistles, in flower nettles.

So my enclosure needs a top? Please can you be more specific about what I need to do if I were to get just an inside table?

28. This is definitely my current problem. She is not eating at all yet, but does drink when I bath her.

Does Will ship to the UK do you know? Or is there a good alt you or anyone knows of here?

I am completely overwhelmed! Hopefully I can get the lights sorted and see some quick turnaround for her to enjoy the long run fixes.

Sadly she is from a home that didn't love her at all and my husband just came home with her one day as he couldn't see her like that. But that doesn't make for an easy start and when she got so happy I thought I'd got it right .

Thank yo
u in advance for your reply and help 😊

 

[Tom]

- is this okay?

https://internetreptile.com/products/prorep-bark-chips?variant=42476473581816&currency=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpPKiBhDvARIsACn-gzBy9qKHQUZzP8cX0zdToUDKrZ2lT8GOZkH4zb6MX3tmiAHGCFygPfAaAmcGEALw_wcB

I'm not familiar with that brand, but it looks good to me. Make sure it is plain fir bark with nothing else added. Fir bar = orchid bark.

How big enclosure are we talking for my approx 7 year old? I can send a pic of her size if needed. Just to note, I am 100% aware her current temporary home is unsuitable, it's an "emergency, not what I thought was going to happen, get her in and under a light" home. Ideally looking for an inside / outside setup (lights in the outside inside area) as my garden is much larger than my house and can take a tortoise building far easier. Night box style if I can.

Minimum size indoors is 122x244cm. They need a lot of space. Best to go much larger than that outdoors.

Is this the flood light I want?

Yes no. What a ridiculous confusing package! It says "Flood Spot Bulb". That is like saying this is a pen pencil. Flood and spot are two different things and the package calls them both. They sell Arcadia over there. Look for an Arcadia "FLOOD" bulb and don't do business with companies that are intentionally using confusing language on their packaging to get more sales.

And UV

That UV bulb is good, but you will also need the fixture and a reflector. Much easier, and better, to just buy the Arcadia ProT5 Kit.

Are these uv sensors suitable?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09XK7VKPD/?tag=

No. Not at all. Complete waste of your money. The only one that works is the Solarmeter 6.5. Confusingly, it is also sold by ZooMed with a different label on it and designated the 6.5R. They cost about $250 US, but they are the only meter that is measuring the part of the UV spectrum that out tortoises need.

To confirm, using the UV light is a once every few days for an hour or so thing, when it's not sunny enough for her to get the rays? I read further on I don't need one if she's getting suitable outside time. Is cloudy uv okay or does it need to be sunny, even if she's in the shade?

If the tortoise is outside a couple few times per week with access to direct sunshine, then you don't need indoor UV. Don't worry about shade or clouds and such. If its cold and over cast there is no point in having the tortoise outside anyway. During the cooler months, or if your tortoise is just inside most of the time, run your HO UV tube for a few hours mid day every day. This simulates the UV spike that happens outside every day.

I don't know what CFL is and if I'm doing it?

CFL = Compact Florescent Lamp. This is a type of UV bulb marketed for reptiles and sold online and in pet shops world wide. They are not an effective UV source and some of them burn reptile eyes. Don't use these.

So my enclosure needs a top? Please can you be more specific about what I need to do if I were to get just an inside table?

No. Well sort of... Its best to use a vivarium style enclosure. They hold in heat and humidity and offer a much better environment than an open table. Retro-fitting an open table by trying to put some sort of top on it almost never works, and usually turns out to be unattractive and difficult to work with. So no, your enclosure doesn't need a top. You need the top of enclosure that has a top, and front opening doors, either the sliding type or hinged. I have both.

Does Will ship to the UK do you know? Or is there a good alt you or anyone knows of here?

I don't think Will ships to the UK. ProAlpin has some options and I think you can get ZooMed Grassland and Forest tortoise pellets there. Both are good to add fiber and variety to grocery store greens. You can also get the ZooMed Flower Topper there to sprinkle on. What about Komodo brand products?

I am completely overwhelmed! Hopefully I can get the lights sorted and see some quick turnaround for her to enjoy the long run fixes.

Sadly she is from a home that didn't love her at all and my husband just came home with her one day as he couldn't see her like that. But that doesn't make for an easy start and when she got so happy I thought I'd got it right .

Thank yo
u in advance for your reply and help 😊

This is a lot of information to absorb. Take a deep breath. Relax. Just do one thing at a time. We will help as much as we can and answer your questions as you go.

This tortoise is lucky to have found its way to someone who cares. Once you learn a few things it is easy and it works. It will be enjoyable once you get a few things sorted out, and the tortoise will reward your efforts with good health and a good appetite.

 

[Marcushorsfield]

I'm not familiar with that brand, but it looks good to me. Make sure it is plain fir bark with nothing else added. Fir bar = orchid bark.


Minimum size indoors is 122x244cm. They need a lot of space. Best to go much larger than that outdoors.


Yes no. What a ridiculous confusing package! It says "Flood Spot Bulb". That is like saying this is a pen pencil. Flood and spot are two different things and the package calls them both. They sell Arcadia over there. Look for an Arcadia "FLOOD" bulb and don't do business with companies that are intentionally using confusing language on their packaging to get more sales.


That UV bulb is good, but you will also need the fixture and a reflector. Much easier, and better, to just buy the Arcadia ProT5 Kit.


No. Not at all. Complete waste of your money. The only one that works is the Solarmeter 6.5. Confusingly, it is also sold by ZooMed with a different label on it and designated the 6.5R. They cost about $250 US, but they are the only meter that is measuring the part of the UV spectrum that out tortoises need.


If the tortoise is outside a couple few times per week with access to direct sunshine, then you don't need indoor UV. Don't worry about shade or clouds and such. If its cold and over cast there is no point in having the tortoise outside anyway. During the cooler months, or if your tortoise is just inside most of the time, run your HO UV tube for a few hours mid day every day. This simulates the UV spike that happens outside every day.


CFL = Compact Florescent Lamp. This is a type of UV bulb marketed for reptiles and sold online and in pet shops world wide. They are not an effective UV source and some of them burn reptile eyes. Don't use these.


No. Well sort of... Its best to use a vivarium style enclosure. They hold in heat and humidity and offer a much better environment than an open table. Retro-fitting an open table by trying to put some sort of top on it almost never works, and usually turns out to be unattractive and difficult to work with. So no, your enclosure doesn't need a top. You need the top of enclosure that has a top, and front opening doors, either the sliding type or hinged. I have both.


I don't think Will ships to the UK. ProAlpin has some options and I think you can get ZooMed Grassland and Forest tortoise pellets there. Both are good to add fiber and variety to grocery store greens. You can also get the ZooMed Flower Topper there to sprinkle on. What about Komodo brand products?


This is a lot of information to absorb. Take a deep breath. Relax. Just do one thing at a time. We will help as much as we can and answer your questions as you go.

This tortoise is lucky to have found its way to someone who cares. Once you learn a few things it is easy and it works. It will be enjoyable once you get a few things sorted out, and the tortoise will reward your efforts with good health and a good appetite.

Okay... Arcadia floodlight 75 watt?
Pro T5 in the basket.... I'll order the orchid stuff now too. Should that be all over the floor outside? Or should I do other textures. You see some amazing things online, but as you point out many times, it's not always best for them.

With regards to the outside area, I'll make it bigger while she's inside getting better.

To make a night house, where do I start? How big will Ribbit (her name) get roughly?

Is there anything else I need to do? She has this in her enclosure as I couldn't get hold of a cuttlefish... I do use the sprinkles, but unlike my kids sprinkles on food isn't appealing to her 🙄. Not that she's touched the block either 😓

https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/zoo-med-tortoise-block-142g-%28online-only%29

What makes me SO sad, is she came so unloved, and potentially I've made her sick thinking I'm doing her better and actually they probably did.

She has a fairly large top layer nail like growth, particularly over her back area, which I read is because of bad food, can I fix that? She is also very bumpy, which I also read isn't normal for a horsefield. Although I think I read last night on here that that probably isn't going to harm her?

And lastly (for this message), when I had her in her bath yesterday, she was gulping when drinking rather than just drinking, like she had a sore throat. She hasn't done that before. When she drinks since she woke, water comes out of her nose too. She doesn't seem bothered at all, and I read on some Google search thing that that's fairly normal, but thought I'd just check everything I think I know!!!

Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated. I'm feeling more positive already. Annie

 

[zolasmum]

Hello Annie - I'm so glad you are able to begin sorting Ribbit out. When you mentioned nail like growth , do you mean a sort of translucent edge to her shell? This is actually new growth,I think,which will gradually become more opaque and the same colour as the rest of her shell. If it's what I'm thinking of, it's a good sign !
I suggest that now you are getting her on the right path, to start weighing her often - also, put her on a piece of paper and draw round the edge of her shell. This will help to keep a check of her progress, and I'm sure it will be encouraging.
Angie

 

[Tom]

Okay... Arcadia floodlight 75 watt?

That is a good starting point, but only your thermometer can answer this question. In a closed chamber (viv), 75 watts might be too much. In an open table, 75 watts might not be enough. There is some adjustability by raising or lowering the bulb and fixture, but sometimes more or less wattage bulbs are needed. In some of my enclosures I use 65 watt floods in winter, but switch to 45s or 25s in the heat of summer. This is an area where we can give you a good starting point, but you have to observe your own enclosure and make the necessary "tweaks" to get the conditions just right. That is why people tell you to read those care sheets. The care sheets give you the the correct temperatures to strive for, as well as some equipment recommendations to help you get there. In time, this will all become simple and easy and second nature to you. We will help you get there.

I'll order the orchid stuff now too. Should that be all over the floor outside? Or should I do other textures. You see some amazing things online, but as you point out many times, it's not always best for them.

The orchid bark is great for indoors. For outdoors, I just use the ground. No need for substrate unless you are building something up off the ground in some way or other, and even then, I would just get a shovel and put the local dirt in it.

To make a night house, where do I start? How big will Ribbit (her name) get roughly?

I recommend a night box with a 4x4 lid and the box fits inside of it. Why such a big box for such a small tortoise? It allows them to bask or move away from the heat lamp when they are inside the box during inclement weather. It also allows them some space to move around on those days when the weather just won't cooperate, yet is small enough and well insulated enough to be able to heat it efficiently.

I build my own night houses. There is nothing sold that is suitable, and after all the modifications necessary for dog houses or deck boxes, it just made more sense to design and build it myself from scratch. I started that process 20 some years ago, and the first few were very amateurish and quite wonky. I am self taught, but necessity is the mother of invention, and my designs and building skills have gradually improved over the years. I still learn new things constantly and incorporate that knowledge into each new build. You will too. If you are not handy, don't have any tools, or don't have a space to work, you can use the threads here to show a local handy man, friend or family member how to build one for you.

Is there anything else I need to do? She has this in her enclosure as I couldn't get hold of a cuttlefish... I do use the sprinkles, but unlike my kids sprinkles on food isn't appealing to her 🙄. Not that she's touched the block either 😓

Everything you need to do is explained in those care sheets.

I have never had a tortoise show any interest in those calcium blocks and I tried for years. A tiny pinch of calcium on the food twice a week will meet all the calcium needs. If you are able to feed lots of weeds and "natural" foods instead of grocery store greens, you won't even need calcium supplementation for a grown adult.

Tortoises don't like new foods. It takes a long time to gradually introduce anything new, like your sprinkles, before they will like it and eat it. Start with tiny amounts at first and take your time gradually increasing the amounts over a period of weeks or months. Very rarely will they just walk up ad eat something new that they are to familiar with.

She has a fairly large top layer nail like growth, particularly over her back area, which I read is because of bad food, can I fix that? She is also very bumpy, which I also read isn't normal for a horsefield. Although I think I read last night on here that that probably isn't going to harm her?

And lastly (for this message), when I had her in her bath yesterday, she was gulping when drinking rather than just drinking, like she had a sore throat. She hasn't done that before. When she drinks since she woke, water comes out of her nose too. She doesn't seem bothered at all, and I read on some Google search thing that that's fairly normal, but thought I'd just check everything I think I know!!!

Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated. I'm feeling more positive already. Annie

You will have to post some pictures for us to evaluate the shell condition. It is normal for Russians to have a rough bumpy texture to their carapace in comparison to some other species. If all else is good, pyramiding is cosmetic and doesn't affect their health.

When a tortoise drinks, they stick their whole mouth and nostrils down into the water, sit still, and suck in the water with their throat and neck muscles. They don't gulp, so I am not sure what you are seeing there. I don't see water coming back out of their nose, but their face is all wet, so maybe I just haven't noticed that part. I love to see my tortoises drinking and don't want to startle them, so when I catch them in the act, I slowly and quietly move away so as not to disturb their drink.

 

[Marcushorsfield]

Thanks Tom, I shall get the 75 and see what heat it gives us.

I've got this other light at the moment which I've kept on to keep her warm.... Once I have the right stuff (should arrive Monday), what is the time frame I'm looking at before she perks up and I need to take her to the vet? I read another post here last night saying the vets aren't always that helpful because of old knowledge and or lack of knowledge.

Thanks, Annie

 

[Sarah2020]

Hi and welcome. Totoise are very robust so get the new kit delivery, install and then observe. I suspect post hibernation stress, unfamiliar enclosure and incorrect temperatures. Heat is important. Food, water, soaks and routine are all important. I also recommend weighing your tortoise and keeping a log and you can monitor weight loss and gain. Keep us posted.

 

[Marcushorsfield]

That is a good starting point, but only your thermometer can answer this question. In a closed chamber (viv), 75 watts might be too much. In an open table, 75 watts might not be enough. There is some adjustability by raising or lowering the bulb and fixture, but sometimes more or less wattage bulbs are needed. In some of my enclosures I use 65 watt floods in winter, but switch to 45s or 25s in the heat of summer. This is an area where we can give you a good starting point, but you have to observe your own enclosure and make the necessary "tweaks" to get the conditions just right. That is why people tell you to read those care sheets. The care sheets give you the the correct temperatures to strive for, as well as some equipment recommendations to help you get there. In time, this will all become simple and easy and second nature to you. We will help you get there.

The orchid bark is great for indoors. For outdoors, I just use the ground. No need for substrate unless you are building something up off the ground in some way or other, and even then, I would just get a shovel and put the local dirt in it.


I recommend a night box with a 4x4 lid and the box fits inside of it. Why such a big box for such a small tortoise? It allows them to bask or move away from the heat lamp when they are inside the box during inclement weather. It also allows them some space to move around on those days when the weather just won't cooperate, yet is small enough and well insulated enough to be able to heat it efficiently.

I build my own night houses. There is nothing sold that is suitable, and after all the modifications necessary for dog houses or deck boxes, it just made more sense to design and build it myself from scratch. I started that process 20 some years ago, and the first few were very amateurish and quite wonky. I am self taught, but necessity is the mother of invention, and my designs and building skills have gradually improved over the years. I still learn new things constantly and incorporate that knowledge into each new build. You will too. If you are not handy, don't have any tools, or don't have a space to work, you can use the threads here to show a local handy man, friend or family member how to build one for you.


Everything you need to do is explained in those care sheets.

I have never had a tortoise show any interest in those calcium blocks and I tried for years. A tiny pinch of calcium on the food twice a week will meet all the calcium needs. If you are able to feed lots of weeds and "natural" foods instead of grocery store greens, you won't even need calcium supplementation for a grown adult.

Tortoises don't like new foods. It takes a long time to gradually introduce anything new, like your sprinkles, before they will like it and eat it. Start with tiny amounts at first and take your time gradually increasing the amounts over a period of weeks or months. Very rarely will they just walk up ad eat something new that they are to familiar with.


You will have to post some pictures for us to evaluate the shell condition. It is normal for Russians to have a rough bumpy texture to their carapace in comparison to some other species. If all else is good, pyramiding is cosmetic and doesn't affect their health.

When a tortoise drinks, they stick their whole mouth and nostrils down into the water, sit still, and suck in the water with their throat and neck muscles. They don't gulp, so I am not sure what you are seeing there. I don't see water coming back out of their nose, but their face is all wet, so maybe I just haven't noticed that part. I love to see my tortoises drinking and don't want to startle them, so when I catch them in the act, I slowly and quietly move away so as not to disturb their drink.

Hi Tom, here is her drinking, nose squirt and gulping. I'm sending a pic of her eyes too as they are a concern for me too. I think I'm just spiraling with her. As always, tips and advice welcome 😀

 

[Marcushorsfield]

Oh, and my 75 watt mixed bulb is only getting to 33, so I went 100 watt

 

[Tom]

Oh, and my 75 watt mixed bulb is only getting to 33, so I went 100 watt

This is important. Tortoises need the correct temperatures to function. This should help.

View attachment 356912
Hi Tom, here is her drinking, nose squirt and gulping. I'm sending a pic of her eyes too as they are a concern for me too. I think I'm just spiraling with her. As always, tips and advice welcome 😀

That is a great water bowl, but do you have a tall sided tub for soaking? How do you keep the water warm for the entire 30-40 minute soak?

I read another post here last night saying the vets aren't always that helpful because of old knowledge and or lack of knowledge.

This is true. If you know of a good tortoise vet that understands tortoise husbandry, then go any time. If not, the vet will have less knowledge of what is needed than you do, and will likely prescribe a "vitamin injection" which is totally unnecessary, and potentially harmful. Or they might decide to "diagnose through treatment" and inject your tortoise with harsh antibiotics that burn them at the injection site, and were totally unnecessary.

Usually tortoise issues are a result of some element of the husbandry being off. Discover that problem, correct it, and the symptoms usually go away on their own. The most common issue is incorrect temperatures and incorrect lighting. Dehydration can be another one, as most sources recommend the wrong care and hydration routines for most tortoises.

 

[zolasmum]

This is important. Tortoises need the correct temperatures to function. This should help.


That is a great water bowl, but do you have a tall sided tub for soaking? How do you keep the water warm for the entire 30-40 minute soak?


This is true. If you know of a good tortoise vet that understands tortoise husbandry, then go any time. If not, the vet will have less knowledge of what is needed than you do, and will likely prescribe a "vitamin injection" which is totally unnecessary, and potentially harmful. Or they might decide to "diagnose through treatment" and inject your tortoise with harsh antibiotics that burn them at the injection site, and were totally unnecessary.

Usually tortoise issues are a result of some element of the husbandry being off. Discover that problem, correct it, and the symptoms usually go away on their own. The most common issue is incorrect temperatures and incorrect lighting. Dehydration can be another one, as most sources recommend the wrong care and hydration routines for most tortoises.

Hello again.Looking at your photos, she seems to have a lot of crusty stuff round her face - she might be having trouble with her eyes and nose as a result. You could try really soaking her head by tipping warm water over her - then gently wiping her eye area and her nose with a damp cotton wool pad or similar. If you do this regularly, it might loosen any old skin blocking them - it won't do any harm, anyway. I wipe Zola's eyes daily, using cooled boiled water.
Angie

 

[Marcushorsfield]

This is important. Tortoises need the correct temperatures to function. This should help.


That is a great water bowl, but do you have a tall sided tub for soaking? How do you keep the water warm for the entire 30-40 minute soak?


This is true. If you know of a good tortoise vet that understands tortoise husbandry, then go any time. If not, the vet will have less knowledge of what is needed than you do, and will likely prescribe a "vitamin injection" which is totally unnecessary, and potentially harmful. Or they might decide to "diagnose through treatment" and inject your tortoise with harsh antibiotics that burn them at the injection site, and were totally unnecessary.

Usually tortoise issues are a result of some element of the husbandry being off. Discover that problem, correct it, and the symptoms usually go away on their own. The most common issue is incorrect temperatures and incorrect lighting. Dehydration can be another one, as most sources recommend the wrong care and hydration routines for most tortoises.

Thanks Tom.

I change the water. Constantly. It actually is her water bowl, doubling up. Like a big clipit style box? I didn't go bigger because I didn't think I could go that deep (I just cover her bottom shell). She's so lethargic that she just droops her head in the water and I didn't want her to drown.

Okay, hopefully I'll be messaging with some really great news toward the end of this week then when the new stuff starts to work!!

She drinks loads when I soak her. I'm doing it 6 days out of 7 at the moment. That video is the gulping I was talking about.

 

[Marcushorsfield]

Hello again.Looking at your photos, she seems to have a lot of crusty stuff round her face - she might be having trouble with her eyes and nose as a result. You could try really soaking her head by tipping warm water over her - then gently wiping her eye area and her nose with a damp cotton wool pad or similar. If you do this regularly, it might loosen any old skin blocking them - it won't do any harm, anyway. I wipe Zola's eyes daily, using cooled boiled water.
Angie

Thanks Angie, I'll do that in her morning soak! 🙏

 

[Marcushorsfield]

Hi and welcome. Totoise are very robust so get the new kit delivery, install and then observe. I suspect post hibernation stress, unfamiliar enclosure and incorrect temperatures. Heat is important. Food, water, soaks and routine are all important. I also recommend weighing your tortoise and keeping a log and you can monitor weight loss and gain. Keep us posted.

Thank you Sarah. I love the idea of her shell outline!