protein

[redtort]

How often do you give your redfoot protein?

 

[terryo]

Every two weeks I give mine some boiled chicked breast, or a few night crawlers. For Christmas they had a few cooked shrimp. The first time, and they went completely crazy over them. They wouldn't eat on Mon and they refused to eat again today. I guess they are holding out for the shrimp. But, they only get protein twice a month. Just what I do...not written in stone of course.

 

[Madkins007]

To answer this question, you need to understand a couple bits.

1. Forest-dwelling species, like some tortoises and box turtles, struggle to get enough nutrients in the forest, since most of the plant nutrients are locked up in the fruits, high leaves, etc. and even those are not very rich since the forest soil is generally much 'thinner' and much less rich that other soils, like prairie. Because of the lack of nutrients, they have adapted to eat pretty much anything under the sun to get the missing nutrients. Grassland species get plenty of protein in the grasses, etc. (They usually have less actual plant mass available, but those plants generally have more useful nutrition per mouthful. This is why most grazing animals live in grasslands rather than forests.)

2. There is no real solid evidence that Red-footed Tortoises NEED meat protein any more than any other species- but they certainly like it and can process it.

3. The stuff we tend to feed tortoises from the store or our yards is pretty nutrient rich as well, so again- we probably really don't have to feed them much, if any, additional protein.

Having said all that, there is not rock solid schedule you need to follow. One protein-based meal a month, a smaller meal every couple weeks, a small meal a week, or a little protein every day is probably all about the same to them. I try to offer a meat every month, or a bit more often if I am feeling especially soft-hearted towards them! I try to rotate loosely between worms, live bugs, soft-bodied larvae, baby mice or rats, chicken, 'oily fish', egg, organ meat (especially when we have some available from human meals), etc.

 

[Redstrike]

To answer this question, you need to understand a couple bits.

1. Forest-dwelling species, like some tortoises and box turtles, struggle to get enough nutrients in the forest, since most of the plant nutrients are locked up in the fruits, high leaves, etc. and even those are not very rich since the forest soil is generally much 'thinner' and much less rich that other soils, like prairie. Because of the lack of nutrients, they have adapted to eat pretty much anything under the sun to get the missing nutrients. Grassland species get plenty of protein in the grasses, etc. (They usually have less actual plant mass available, but those plants generally have more useful nutrition per mouthful. This is why most grazing animals live in grasslands rather than forests.)

2. There is no real solid evidence that Red-footed Tortoises NEED meat protein any more than any other species- but they certainly like it and can process it.

3. The stuff we tend to feed tortoises from the store or our yards is pretty nutrient rich as well, so again- we probably really don't have to feed them much, if any, additional protein.

Having said all that, there is not rock solid schedule you need to follow. One protein-based meal a month, a smaller meal every couple weeks, a small meal a week, or a little protein every day is probably all about the same to them. I try to offer a meat every month, or a bit more often if I am feeling especially soft-hearted towards them! I try to rotate loosely between worms, live bugs, soft-bodied larvae, baby mice or rats, chicken, 'oily fish', egg, organ meat (especially when we have some available from human meals), etc.

Both TerryO and Madkins gave you great answers here, I just wanted to add that there have been observations of rear-leg locomotion issues in tortoises that did not receive protein in their diets (Mike Pingleton & Amanda Ebenhack's books discuss this). I agree with Madkins, that our diets are extremely rich compared to a wild diet, but a protein meal 1-2 times/month or once biweekly is probably a good idea to avoid any potential of the aforementioned walking problem.

I provide phoenix worms or a similar insect larvae ~2/month to my hatchlings and they get Mazuri 1/month. I keep a log of every mornings meal and it help to keep track of infrequent things like this.

 

[Madkins007]

Both TerryO and Madkins gave you great answers here, I just wanted to add that there have been observations of rear-leg locomotion issues in tortoises that did not receive protein in their diets (Mike Pingleton & Amanda Ebenhack's books discuss this). I agree with Madkins, that our diets are extremely rich compared to a wild diet, but a protein meal 1-2 times/month or once biweekly is probably a good idea to avoid any potential of the aforementioned walking problem.

I provide phoenix worms or a similar insect larvae ~2/month to my hatchlings and they get Mazuri 1/month. I keep a log of every mornings meal and it help to keep track of infrequent things like this.

Yes- that is 100% true, but for a weird reason. Back some time ago, protein (both plant or animal) picked up a bad reputation as being the cause of pyramiding. In fact, a rather interesting study on Sulcata hatchlings was done to PROVE this, and ended up proving that it was NOT true!

Anyway, in the effort to aggressively minimize protein in the diet, keepers came up with lists of low-protein foods and meals that they stuck to, so many tortoises were actually protein-deprived (Alfalfa, for example, became a MAJOR no-no). Sadly, protein is a critical element in making muscle, nerves, and so forth, so you get tortoises with health issues.

A lot of the things we offer do have protein in them, however. 100 grams of collards, for example, has 2gr of protein in it and 100gr of mushrooms have 3gr. A 5" long forest-species of tortoise only needs about 8 grams a day.

 

[tyler0912]

1x weekly.

 

[Redstrike]

Both TerryO and Madkins gave you great answers here, I just wanted to add that there have been observations of rear-leg locomotion issues in tortoises that did not receive protein in their diets (Mike Pingleton & Amanda Ebenhack's books discuss this). I agree with Madkins, that our diets are extremely rich compared to a wild diet, but a protein meal 1-2 times/month or once biweekly is probably a good idea to avoid any potential of the aforementioned walking problem.

I provide phoenix worms or a similar insect larvae ~2/month to my hatchlings and they get Mazuri 1/month. I keep a log of every mornings meal and it help to keep track of infrequent things like this.

Yes- that is 100% true, but for a weird reason. Back some time ago, protein (both plant or animal) picked up a bad reputation as being the cause of pyramiding. In fact, a rather interesting study on Sulcata hatchlings was done to PROVE this, and ended up proving that it was NOT true!

Anyway, in the effort to aggressively minimize protein in the diet, keepers came up with lists of low-protein foods and meals that they stuck to, so many tortoises were actually protein-deprived (Alfalfa, for example, became a MAJOR no-no). Sadly, protein is a critical element in making muscle, nerves, and so forth, so you get tortoises with health issues.

A lot of the things we offer do have protein in them, however. 100 grams of collards, for example, has 2gr of protein in it and 100gr of mushrooms have 3gr. A 5" long forest-species of tortoise only needs about 8 grams a day.

It always amazes me how convoluted some of these misconceptions can be, it reminds me of Iron and Spinach...

We went radical on protein only to drive our tortoises to locomatory issues - nuts! More convincing evidence for a varied and balanced diet...

Thanks for clearing that up, Madkins.

 

[ijmccollum]

1-2X weekly, always with either a veggie or fruit. I feed Mazuri, 1 pellet -- it's wee thing still.

 

[Madkins007]

It always amazes me how convoluted some of these misconceptions can be, it reminds me of Iron and Spinach...

We went radical on protein only to drive our tortoises to locomatory issues - nuts! More convincing evidence for a varied and balanced diet...

Thanks for clearing that up, Madkins.

Do you mean the old typo in iron levels that made people think the stuff was a wonder cure for things, and lead to the Popeye bit?