Pyramiding is caused by a lack of humidity.
See http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/
See http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/
Proud owner of two new Hermann tortoises
- Thread starter Kieran Marshall
- Start date
Adequate moisture/humidity is what I believe prevents pyramiding. There is a pretty good explanation of temps, etc. on the Hermanns care sheet. The member who wrote it is a well known Hermann's expert, both on this forum and in community. I would remove that pine cat litter as I said before - cat litter absorbs moisture. If they burrow in that it's going to suck the moisture right out of them.
Also - they are SUPER CUTE!!!! Congratulations 
Kieran Marshall
New Member
well I have them in my care now and will make sure they are in a humid environment.
Thank you, we love them. They seemed really happy got home late, they had a a good hour wondering around testing everything and then burrowed together and went to sleep. managed to get the megaray light at 95 degrees which is what i wanted. i guess i can add more coco coir tomorrow and replace the litter with that too to keep things more moist and humid!
Also - they are SUPER CUTE!!!! Congratulations
Thank you, we love them. They seemed really happy got home late, they had a a good hour wondering around testing everything and then burrowed together and went to sleep. managed to get the megaray light at 95 degrees which is what i wanted. i guess i can add more coco coir tomorrow and replace the litter with that too to keep things more moist and humid!
Hello and welcome!
Kieran Marshall
New Member
I have been watching them carefully , the larger one seems more active than the smaller one but both eating well and moving well - when they go to bed they usually huddle up together which seems sweet ! , the smaller one has not yet been for a bath or drink in the water tray however larger one has - should i be worried ? It may be that i have not seen her yet and just assume. They are both eating garden weeds washed so assume they will be getting good moisture from those !
The smaller one may be afraid to go near the water because the larger one does.
"Huddling up together" is a sign of bullying, competing for the same space, bullying is often subtle in tortoises but causes stress.
They really need separating, I'm afraid.
"Huddling up together" is a sign of bullying, competing for the same space, bullying is often subtle in tortoises but causes stress.
They really need separating, I'm afraid.
That's bullying, not huddling.
It's difficult for us to recognize how tortoises work, compared to ourselves. You can separate them now or wait for one of them to be more obviously bullied and perhaps injured or made ill.
It's difficult for us to recognize how tortoises work, compared to ourselves. You can separate them now or wait for one of them to be more obviously bullied and perhaps injured or made ill.
Kieran, you've been getting very good advice in this thread, but you seem to be ignoring a lot f it.
We know that you want two tortoises and you want it to be okay. It isn't okay. They don't get along, its not sweet when one is trying to crowd the other out of the territory, and they need to be separated, before one or both get sick and die. Groups can sometimes work. Pairs do not work.
Also, these tortoise have been kept too dry and that is why they are pyramiding. The breeder you've been talking to s using old, out-dated, incorrect info, and the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Look at the results he/she is producing. Of course the breeder is telling you that a pair is fine. They need to sell and get rid of the babies. We stand to gain nothing by telling you to separate them. In fact, we risk upsetting you and having you leave our forum, to the detriment of your tortoises. We don't want you to get upset and leave, but you aren't hearing what is being said here. Making a sale and doubling our money is not our goal here. Our goal is purely to help your tortoises live a healthy life and to help you have a good experience keeping them. If you continue on your current path, you will learn all the things we are trying to tell you, but your tortoises and you will suffer the consequences that some of our tortoises suffered in the past as we learned these things the hard way. You don't have to learn these things the hard way and your tortoises don't have to suffer the consequences of the breeder's ignorance.
Pine oils are not good for tortoises. Pine pellets absorb moisture and make conditions that are too dry and desiccating for small tortoises. They should not be used.
It is common in the UK for people to recommend and sell tiny little cute enclosures like yours. They are too small. Tortoises need room to move around. Locomotion helps keep things moving in their long GI tracts, and it keeps them fit. Myriad health problems can occur when they are crowded into small enclosures. The enclosure you have now is barely big enough for one small baby. It is not nearly big enough for more than one and it will certainly not be big enough one year from now, much less several years from now.
We are trying to steer you away from irreparable damage and health problems. Please let us. Also, feel free to question all of this and ask for more explanation or proof. We are happy to back up these assertions, and doing so will help you and others learn more.
We know that you want two tortoises and you want it to be okay. It isn't okay. They don't get along, its not sweet when one is trying to crowd the other out of the territory, and they need to be separated, before one or both get sick and die. Groups can sometimes work. Pairs do not work.
Also, these tortoise have been kept too dry and that is why they are pyramiding. The breeder you've been talking to s using old, out-dated, incorrect info, and the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Look at the results he/she is producing. Of course the breeder is telling you that a pair is fine. They need to sell and get rid of the babies. We stand to gain nothing by telling you to separate them. In fact, we risk upsetting you and having you leave our forum, to the detriment of your tortoises. We don't want you to get upset and leave, but you aren't hearing what is being said here. Making a sale and doubling our money is not our goal here. Our goal is purely to help your tortoises live a healthy life and to help you have a good experience keeping them. If you continue on your current path, you will learn all the things we are trying to tell you, but your tortoises and you will suffer the consequences that some of our tortoises suffered in the past as we learned these things the hard way. You don't have to learn these things the hard way and your tortoises don't have to suffer the consequences of the breeder's ignorance.
Pine oils are not good for tortoises. Pine pellets absorb moisture and make conditions that are too dry and desiccating for small tortoises. They should not be used.
It is common in the UK for people to recommend and sell tiny little cute enclosures like yours. They are too small. Tortoises need room to move around. Locomotion helps keep things moving in their long GI tracts, and it keeps them fit. Myriad health problems can occur when they are crowded into small enclosures. The enclosure you have now is barely big enough for one small baby. It is not nearly big enough for more than one and it will certainly not be big enough one year from now, much less several years from now.
We are trying to steer you away from irreparable damage and health problems. Please let us. Also, feel free to question all of this and ask for more explanation or proof. We are happy to back up these assertions, and doing so will help you and others learn more.
Kieran Marshall
New Member
They have settled in well I think , they do not use the home compartment in the table for sleeping , one prefers to sleep by a plant and the other burrows into the soil around 7pm which is when I turn out the light , they usually sleep for 12-13 hours and wake around 8-9am full of beans waiting for food . I tend to mix dandilion , lambs lettuce and another weed which is on the safe list so they get some variety and as a treat every four days add some apple or pepper. I sprinkle a touch of calcium onto their food daily they also have cuttlebone available , I tend to feed them at slightly different times just to keep them on their toes . There is a water tray and they do like to bath occasionally in it but never see them drink from it - they actually prefer to drink the bath water which is warmer . They are very active throughout the day and nap occasionally half way through under the light which is 95 degrees and about 65 degrees in other areas of the table . If there is an empty food bowl I feed them some more after their bath around 6pm they usually go to the toilet whilst in the bath .
One final note I do not see any subtle sign of bullying from the bigger one in fact if anything the little one always wins if there is any competitive play going on. It they both seem happy .
If you have any questions regarding what I have said for their routine do let me know so I can answer or address them with you guys , I am looking for some more varietys of food especially going into the winter here in the U.K.
Thanks
One final note I do not see any subtle sign of bullying from the bigger one in fact if anything the little one always wins if there is any competitive play going on. It they both seem happy .
If you have any questions regarding what I have said for their routine do let me know so I can answer or address them with you guys , I am looking for some more varietys of food especially going into the winter here in the U.K.
Thanks
Kieran Marshall
New Member
Regarding your comment that I have not "listened"I have actually listened to a lot of advice on here . I could probably name ten changes I have made due to advice given on this thread and I thank you all for it !
One thing I have learnt though through life as well as on forums is there are some things that are fact am some things that are politics when it comes to passionate animal lovers and some things down to ones opinion - of course, I don't pretend to be an expert and all the changes I have made prove that not only am I a beginner but I do follow advice as much as possible .
In regard to separating them all of the warning signs that have been expressed are not happening at present and the smaller one I would say is the more healthy happier of the two at present. Before I make an 11th change and separate them I wish to observe their behaviour a little more and also do some more research simply because what I have been told on above threads doesn't appear to be happening even in a subtle way .
Just an FYI regarding the breeder - I know him! I totally agree he is living with outdated methods ( hence why I came on your forum ) but he is not looking to make money from me simply because he didn't charge me for them
He has also said to stay in touch and if any concerns he will address with me and help me as much as possible .
I hope that clears some things up and I also am very happy to listen and carry out advice just like I have been doing on this thread already so again I say thank you !
One thing I have learnt though through life as well as on forums is there are some things that are fact am some things that are politics when it comes to passionate animal lovers and some things down to ones opinion - of course, I don't pretend to be an expert and all the changes I have made prove that not only am I a beginner but I do follow advice as much as possible .
In regard to separating them all of the warning signs that have been expressed are not happening at present and the smaller one I would say is the more healthy happier of the two at present. Before I make an 11th change and separate them I wish to observe their behaviour a little more and also do some more research simply because what I have been told on above threads doesn't appear to be happening even in a subtle way .
Just an FYI regarding the breeder - I know him! I totally agree he is living with outdated methods ( hence why I came on your forum ) but he is not looking to make money from me simply because he didn't charge me for them
He has also said to stay in touch and if any concerns he will address with me and help me as much as possible .
I hope that clears some things up and I also am very happy to listen and carry out advice just like I have been doing on this thread already so again I say thank you !
