Question about Sulcata's

[methos75]

A local Reptile store got a few young Sulcata's in which in my area is very rare and something you never see, and I have a question about them. They are between 3-4 inches long and all have slightly raised Scutes. Shouldn't they shells be smooth, the owner says it is normal for Sulcata's, but I thought that Sulcata's stayed smooth

 

[Tom]

I don't know if your question should make me happy or sad... here's the back story:

Sulcatas and leopards first became widely available in the late 80's and early 90's. Prior to that few people had seen or heard of them. Since that time NO ONE has been able to raise them smooth from a hatchling and make them look like the wild caught ones do. There are a few rare instances where people got a pretty smooth sulcata, but they, and nobody else, could explain how they did it, and everyone else who tried to duplicate it failed (like me, for example). Only in the last few years have a few people (like me) figured it out. The word has still not gotten out yet. Even among reptile people. Richard and Jerry Fife are the first people I saw publishing this info in their 2007 book "Leopard Tortoises". After two decades of research, failure and frustration I am now able to produce THIS:

This is Tuck. Conceived, laid, dug up, incubated, hatched and raised at my ranch, following the techniques outlined on my care sheet. He's 8 months old in this pic. Show this to your pet store friends and tell them this is what they are supposed to look like.

So, to answer your question: NORMALLY, for the last 20 years, they are all pyramided. They shouldn't be. They aren't supposed to be. They ought not to be. But they are.

I intend to change the "norm". Pyramiding is an abomination and I intend to eradicate it. I may die of old age before I succeed, but I will happily die trying. Only in the last few years have the smooth ones been showing up. There are a few pioneers out there blazing a new trail. The rest of us just need to get the word out.

 

[methos75]

Thanks, I assumed as much. They aren't too bad yet and with proper care I think they will do fine, while generally nice guys at the store they know far more about Snakes and Lizards than they do tortoises and all there Tortoises are kept in dry tanks with no soaking dishes. They didn't even know that Redfoots were humidity loving Jungle tortoises till I told then, they offered me all three for $150 and I didn't want to jump on it till I was sure if it was pyramiding or not. Guess I'll get them and set them up in a better enclosure with access to water and a humid hide to help curb the Pyramiding. Thanks.

 

[Tom]

Thanks, I assumed as much. They aren't too bad yet and with proper care I think they will do fine, while generally nice guys at the store they know far more about Snakes and Lizards than they do tortoises and all there Tortoises are kept in dry tanks with no soaking dishes. They didn't even know that Redfoots were humidity loving Jungle tortoises till I told then, they offered me all three for $150 and I didn't want to jump on it till I was sure if it was pyramiding or not. Guess I'll get them and set them up in a better enclosure with access to water and a humid hide to help curb the Pyramiding. Thanks.

You'll never erase the pyramiding that they already have, but if you give them some humidity, shell spraying and a humid hide, the new growth should come in nicely. Once they get big, you probably won't even be able to tell that there was ever a problem. I would go a little buck wild with the wet routine if I were trying to "STOP" pyramiding already in progress versus PREVENTING pyramiding that has not started.

 

[methos75]

Yeah I had the same issue with my Redfoots and while its still there, its less noticeable now than it was just a few months ago. As far as Substrate goes, I got about 6 bags of Jungle Bead which is basically coconut Choir, some plantation soil, and cypress which I use for my RFs. Would this be subtable for Sulcata's as well?

 

[Tom]

It all sounds like it would be fine to me. I've used all sorts of stuff and never had any problems as far as the torts were concerned.

 

[methos75]

Cool, once I get them set-up I'll post oics

 

[Fernando]

This is Tuck. Conceived, laid, dug up, incubated, hatched and raised at my ranch, following the techniques outlined on my care sheet. He's 8 months old in this pic. Show this to your pet store friends and tell them this is what they are supposed to look like.

wow...I'm so jealous. That is one smooth sulcata.

I've had mine for about a month and since I've had him he hasn't had any pyramiding from what I can tell...does your method, TOM, reverse pyramiding as well?

He has looked like this since I bought him:

 

[RV's mom]

beautiful baby Tom!

teri

 

[Tom]

Thanks all.

fmadrigal, nothing will reverse pyramiding, but the right conditions will eventually cause the new growth to come in smoother. Here's a thread showing what I mean:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-More-Daisy-Pics

YOUR tort looks great. You don't have a pyramiding issue and if you are housing and caring for Andy the right way (as far as I know you ARE) you never will.

 

[dmmj]

there goes that crazy tom, tossing out his wacky theories.

 

[methos75]

Got one of them, I was going to get all three but realistically due to the sizes they attain that wouldn't be practical for now so I settle with saving one of them. He appears to be male, and is a very very active and curious little dude. He just tromps around everywhere and is already eating and using his dish to soak in, and I have only had him a few hours. mush different from my Redfoots who took forever to start eating, and still hide most of the day. For now because of his pyramiding I am taking others advice and keeping him in a more humid set-up, and misting him a few times a day. Relative Humidity is hovering around 60%.

 

[methos75]

Got one of them, I was going to get all three but realistically due to the sizes they attain that wouldn't be practical for now so I settle with saving one of them. He appears to be male, and is a very very active and curious little dude. He just tromps around everywhere and is already eating and using his dish to soak in, and I have only had him a few hours. mush different from my Redfoots who took forever to start eating, and still hide most of the day. For now because of his pyramiding I am taking others advice and keeping him in a more humid set-up, and misting him a few times a day. Relative Humidity is hovering around 60%.

 

[Tom]

Congrats. That's pretty similar to how pyramided Daisy was when I got her. A key element in stopping the pyramiding will be a proper humid hide box. The more time he spends in it the better. If mine don't go in on their own, I stick them in there after lights out so they sleep in there over night. It really makes a difference. Daily soaks and shell spraying are helpful too.

And in case I haven't mentioned it five times already, an hour or two of sunshine everyday possible will work wonders at keeping him healthy too.

 

[methos75]

Yeah he will be getting Outdoor sun once Spring hits, right now its just too cold with it being in the negatives. I do have a MvB and a Reptisun 10.0 over him for now, but things will be better in the summer once I move back down South and he and my Redfoots can get more time outdoors.