Recent loss - advice needed

UKTortie

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Nov 23, 2017
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3
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Manchester UK
Hello all

I am after some advice after our young cherry head died and I am after some reassurance that it wasn’t my fault. It is the first time I have kept a tortoise but not the first reptile. Here’s the story (sorry for the essay).

In June we bought a six month old from what I thought was a reputable pet store here in Manchester UK, I had already done my research and checked him for signs of illness etc. I brought him home and put him in a 3ft wooden Vivarium which had a 3 layer substrate of hydro balls, eco earth soil and top layer of loose bark, a uv light which was 12% which spanned the full length of the viv and finally a che which was on a thermostat set to 88 degrees. At first everything was fine albeit he would hide a lot and didn’t seem very active. I was feeding him different types of greens with fruit but some days he would eat and then others he wouldn’t, when I watched him eat it would sometimes look like he couldn’t see his food as he kept missing, I bathed him every other day for 20 minutes and made sure he drank from his water bowl.

He still wasn’t very active and would stay in the warm end even though the cool end never went below 80 degrees so there was ambient temperature throughout and the humidity never dipped below 70%. After a few weeks I still wasn’t happy so went back to the pet store and they told me he was probably still settling in and they are naturally shy.

He did improve slightly and everything was ok, he ate on and off, drank and pooped but was still missing his food from time to time. Fast forward a few months and I bought him a new habitat (Exo Terra 90x45x30) with same substrate and changed his uv to 5% as I was told that it might be the bright light which was causing the problem, I was also finding keeping temperature and humidity easier.

Anyway three weeks ago things were just not right with him, he stopped eating completely and he wasn’t growing, he had lost weight and was hiding all the time, so I took him to the vet, he did have some discharge around the eyes but no other symptoms, the vet gave injections of antibiotics and calcium, with another injection of fluid as he appeared dehydrated, I went back again 2 days later for the next dose and he did appear more active and to be getting better but the day after he seemed restless, eyes were shut but walking round, constantly in the cool end, I couldn’t get him back to the vets as they were closed and there isn’t an emergency reptile vet in our area. Sadly I woke up the next morning to get him ready for the vets to find his head completely retracted inside his shell, he had died and I was devastated.

Unfortunately I have only just found this forum but I don’t know if he was sick when I got him or if I have done something wrong, I am thinking about getting another but I want to make sure I am doing things right first. Sorry for the long winded story and all comments are welcome, good or bad.
 

Big Charlie

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Were you using a coiled type bulb? That is known to cause issues with their eyes like you described.
If the tortoise wasn't started correctly by the breeder, many of them don't make it.
 

teresaf

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Red foot tortoises, especially the Young, need really high humidity using a real humidity gauge not the round button type that are very inaccurate.
In order to get that high humidity you have to have a closed chamber. That basically means a cabinet. All 6 sides solid. The thermometer/hygrometer I've pictured is very useful because the probe can be inside the enclosed chamber while the mechanism is on the outside not exposed to the humidity. Coil bulbs can cause blindness. We could probably help you more if she was still alive and your setup was still set up... Before you get another tortoise I would set up your enclosure and make sure you have all the temperatures correct and humidity is up to 80%. Then post pictures here for suggestions on what to do next. For instance, most of us here use terracotta plant saucers for food and water dishes because the sides are slanted, they're shallow and they can be sunk into the dirt so they can walk into them and out of them easily. For for first-time tortoise owner a baby is really not the way to go but a lot of us did that including myself. Babies are more fragile and less forgiving of owners errors...
 

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Clamhandsmcgee

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I think hatchlings are great for a 1st time keeper, as long as they have the information (From this forum) to properly care for them. Also, as stated above, buy one from a reputable breeder who starts their hatchlings out right. I use to hear hear it all the time "failure to thrive" but what was really going on is the hatchlings were kept too dry and hot for too long. Now that we have the correct info, are tortoises live healthy lives and have smooth shells.
 

UKTortie

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Nov 23, 2017
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Location (City and/or State)
Manchester UK
Were you using a coiled type bulb? That is known to cause issues with their eyes like you described.
If the tortoise wasn't started correctly by the breeder, many of them don't make it.

Thank you for the responses so far, here is a little more information.

I was using a uv strip light but was told a 12% Arcadia d3+ would be better to use than 5%, when I put the new setup together I switched to a 5% uv strip, is this correct?

I had two digital hygrometers, one at each end. The cooler end was constantly above 80% with the warmer end being difficult to maintain but was never below 70%. How do you keep humidity without making it wet?

I was also running the che 24/7 and heat mat because here in the UK it is now winter time so the room temperature falls dramatically at night time, am I right?

I haven’t decided yet if I will be getting another one as I don’t want to go through this again but if anyone in the Manchester area of the UK can recommend a breeder then please get in touch.
 

TammyJ

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Thank you for caring so much and trying your best for the little guy, and I am sorry he did not make it.
Just a few things I am wondering about, I am not an expert but....
What are "hydro balls"? I don't know of them.
What kind of bark was the "loose bark"?
Sometimes when we take our reptiles to a vet that is not a good reptile vet, it's better that we had not done so at all. I had no choice once and took my hatchling ball python to a vet here and he was given antibiotics and had a violent (allergic?!) reaction and died soon after. Who knew?
Not saying any of this means much, just my two cents.
 

UKTortie

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Nov 23, 2017
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3
Location (City and/or State)
Manchester UK
Thank you for caring so much and trying your best for the little guy, and I am sorry he did not make it.
Just a few things I am wondering about, I am not an expert but....
What are "hydro balls"? I don't know of them.
What kind of bark was the "loose bark"?
Sometimes when we take our reptiles to a vet that is not a good reptile vet, it's better that we had not done so at all. I had no choice once and took my hatchling ball python to a vet here and he was given antibiotics and had a violent (allergic?!) reaction and died soon after. Who knew?
Not saying any of this means much, just my two cents.

The hydro balls were recommended to me as a base layer of substrate for rainforest species, they are manufactured by zoo med and are just ceramic balls which supposedly retain moisture releasing it slowly to the higher levels and controls humidity. The reptile bark, again recommended to me is orchid bark again made by zoo med, it supposedly increases humidity.

What I am finding interesting is that a large percentage of red foot owners are in the states, here in the uk there doesn’t seem many owners or breeders, only pet shops who are just interested in the sale, there’s isn’t that many reptile vets neither so getting an appointment isn’t the easiest thing and ain’t cheap. I suppose I just need to accept what happened and read all the guides again before deciding what to do.

If anyone else has any comments then please feel free.
 
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