- Joined
- Mar 29, 2009
- Messages
- 118
Can redfoots have red cabbage?
thanks
thanks
Red Cabbage?
- Thread starter tortguy521
- Start date
- Status
I never saw any kind of cabbage on a food list for Redfoots, but I'm no expert.
I'm pretty sure they can have cabbage I'm just not sure how much. Hopefully someone else will post with more information for you. I tried to give it to Dale once, but he wouldn't touch it. 
They can eat it, just not as much nutrients as other choices.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
- Messages
- 157
Hmm, is red cabbage same as red lettuce?
http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plants_19.asp?catID=225
According to that, its safe to eat. I've went through every plant on the site, and very little plants are considered "Safe to eat
Majority is "Feed in moderation" so I assume red lettuce must be pretty good.
http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plants_19.asp?catID=225
According to that, its safe to eat. I've went through every plant on the site, and very little plants are considered "Safe to eat
Majority is "Feed in moderation" so I assume red lettuce must be pretty good.
NO.... keep it simple! No need to chase that "VARIETY" myth. Keep it simple.
NERD
NERD
Don't mix up cabbage with raddiccio. Raddiccio is NOT cabbage, however it looks like cabbage.
Cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, kale, and mustard greens contain substances called "goitrogens" which can affect thyroid function, although this effect is seldom seen unless large amounts of these foods are fed.
So, cabbage can be fed occasionally, but not in large quantities.
Cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, kale, and mustard greens contain substances called "goitrogens" which can affect thyroid function, although this effect is seldom seen unless large amounts of these foods are fed.
So, cabbage can be fed occasionally, but not in large quantities.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
- Messages
- 157
Hmm, I have both Raddiccio and redleaf lettuce
Is redleaf lettuce okay? I'm just judging from the site.
Is redleaf lettuce okay? I'm just judging from the site.
Yes, both are ok as a part of a varied diet. (Baby box turtles love red-leaf lettuce!)
What they WILL eat.. and what is really most nutritional is light-years apart.
Where is the wisdom of spending $$$ ( I don't care if they are free ) on empty greens that do nothing but fill them for an hour at best???
Variety is a myth! Well balanced nutrients are vital!
If you care about your redfoot you will feed what is best.. grape leaves - hibiscus leaves/flowers - dandelion leaves - curly endive - escarole - collard greens - kale ( one meal a week tops ). That is the Calcium % in that order. [ I'll post a link as soon as I can find it ]
As many as you can find or have ordered at the produce dept. is best ---- or if one is only available.. make that their staple until others are.
Yes I'm being one way on this! Most of the time in the winter all of mine eat nothing but collard greens for greens.. sometimes week on end.
They thrive and still make babies, etc.
NERD
Good thing this wasn't a snake.. I'd have been bitten - http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/nutrientanalysis.htm
Take the dialog at face value.
NERD
Where is the wisdom of spending $$$ ( I don't care if they are free ) on empty greens that do nothing but fill them for an hour at best???
Variety is a myth! Well balanced nutrients are vital!
If you care about your redfoot you will feed what is best.. grape leaves - hibiscus leaves/flowers - dandelion leaves - curly endive - escarole - collard greens - kale ( one meal a week tops ). That is the Calcium % in that order. [ I'll post a link as soon as I can find it ]
As many as you can find or have ordered at the produce dept. is best ---- or if one is only available.. make that their staple until others are.
Yes I'm being one way on this! Most of the time in the winter all of mine eat nothing but collard greens for greens.. sometimes week on end.
They thrive and still make babies, etc.
NERD
Good thing this wasn't a snake.. I'd have been bitten - http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/nutrientanalysis.htm
Take the dialog at face value.
NERD
Thanks for that, Terry K. Put it on my fav.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2008
- Messages
- 725
I like feeding my sulcatas cabbage, its their favorite after apples. But I never feed it to the foots becasue again they love it and eat it over almost everything. I agree with terry that VARIETY is a myth , in the sense that it is needed. However a variety of food sources is favored by the tortotoises as per my observations. When I feed them Hibiscus leaves they love them, but when the plants start blooming and they get the flowers they go nuts! Then after about a week of that I throw in some fuits and stuff and they could care less about the flowers. And if I get my hands on papaya forget it , they wont eat anything else, they will eat all the papay and walk over everything else looking for more papaya
Redfootedboxturtles said:
Remember this thread is about redfoot tortoises...
YES Vince.. the myth is that a big variety IS needed... based on my posts explaining that sometimes mine will eat ( for greens ) nothing but 'collard greens' [ for example ] for months on end during the winter months when nothing else is available or financially practical.
Also remember that some of us don't live where a "variety" is available year-'round like Vince does! Sunny FL [ except this year??? ].
NERD
With all due respect to Terry, he is one of the few experienced keepers to feel that variety is unnecessary. Other authors, breeders, large scale keepers and experienced keepers would say that there is a value to variety in that it stimulates appetite, offers a wider variety of micro-nutrients, and more. Most strongly suggest variety. Just because an animal breeds (and breeds beautifully in Terry's case), it is not proof that everything is as good as it could be.
I agree that keeping things simple is a very, very good idea- in diet, housing, etc.- but it is possible to go too simple. Understand- I am not saying his animals are at risk or ANYTHING like that- just that it is possible that things could be better with more variety. By the same token, college students can survive for months on Total cereal and peanut butter and still reproduce- but that does not make it a good idea.
Cabbage has a good Ca: P of 2.05:1, some fiber and other nutrients, etc. It IS considered a goiterogen (along with the other brassicas- cauliflower, kale, etc.) but there is almost no evidence that this is a problem unless you overdo it. Overall- not a bad food, but nothing too special, and my guys usually ignore it except as a last resort.
There is also a value to low nutrient foods- they make good tummy filler on near-fast days or to help slim down a too-plump tortoise. If they are high in moisture content, they can also help with hydration, and the thick cabbage leaves tend to hold more moisture than many other greens.
I agree that keeping things simple is a very, very good idea- in diet, housing, etc.- but it is possible to go too simple. Understand- I am not saying his animals are at risk or ANYTHING like that- just that it is possible that things could be better with more variety. By the same token, college students can survive for months on Total cereal and peanut butter and still reproduce- but that does not make it a good idea.
Cabbage has a good Ca: P of 2.05:1, some fiber and other nutrients, etc. It IS considered a goiterogen (along with the other brassicas- cauliflower, kale, etc.) but there is almost no evidence that this is a problem unless you overdo it. Overall- not a bad food, but nothing too special, and my guys usually ignore it except as a last resort.
There is also a value to low nutrient foods- they make good tummy filler on near-fast days or to help slim down a too-plump tortoise. If they are high in moisture content, they can also help with hydration, and the thick cabbage leaves tend to hold more moisture than many other greens.
Mark you and others still don't get it! You are "twisting" the nutritional needs to the point of absurdity.. and misquoting me from the start. I mentioned 6 of the greens highest in calcium %.. as staples! ( remember I'm feeding a few more than most are ) And is it possible that those that you claim advocate what you call "variety" isn't really 'overkill'???
[ that comment about collge students has to be out of order.]
We are talking about during the winter months when only a few "good" greens are available. Do you honestly think that a redfoot tortoise would ever refuse any ONE of those mentioned above? Mine never do!
It's your $$$... [ hope you're not "over-filling" your redfoots ]...
Terry K
BTW.. I am in no way upset or angry or even care about what is considered a varied balanced diet by anyone.
[ that comment about collge students has to be out of order.]
We are talking about during the winter months when only a few "good" greens are available. Do you honestly think that a redfoot tortoise would ever refuse any ONE of those mentioned above? Mine never do!
It's your $$$... [ hope you're not "over-filling" your redfoots ]...
Terry K
BTW.. I am in no way upset or angry or even care about what is considered a varied balanced diet by anyone.
Redfoot NERD said:
I have not claimed that they need dozens of different foods at a time, even though you have suggested I have on some threads.
As for saying that others may be doing 'overkill'- a lot of these people have been doing this longer than either of us, breed more than you do, etc. I sure would not dismiss their advice.
You said "mine will eat ( for greens ) nothing but 'collard greens' [ for example ] for months on end during the winter months", twice! I don't see that there is a difference between that and a college student eating badly for the semester.
Collards have a 14.5:1 Ca: P- WAY over the top in the ratio. You know that over-calcification can lead to bladder stones, over-calcified eggs, skeletal and organ issues, etc. especially if combined with dehydration and a lack of vitamin D. I know you do a great job of hydration and the cat food you offer (and did not mention) offers vitamin D and other vitamins... but what about the beginner hearing advice like- 'go ahead and offer collards all winter'- without knowing the water and D parts of the equation?
Besides collards, other greens with a good Ca: P AND a good amount of calcium would include turnip greens, kelp, arugula, rugula, lambsquarters*, beet greens*, dandelion, bok choy*, parsley*, chickory, cabbage*, spinach*, watercress*, endive and escarole.
Even plain old green leafy lettuce is not OK, especially when paired with a higher calcium food (like collards or turnip greens), or with a small pinch of calcium powder.
(*- brassicas, or things that some lists have as high in oxalates- neither of which is really an issue when you use variety and good hydration and vitamin D.)
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
- Messages
- 157
If one green has 4:2 Ca: P ratio, can't you just feed twice as much of another leaf witha 2:1 Ca: P ratio? Not only will you get the same nutrition, ur tortoise feels more full and satisfied?
Unless I'm missing something here..
Unless I'm missing something here..
As I speak in generalities it sure brings forth interesting 'interpretations'!
'fifth'.. is it really better to feed 2x as much to get the same results?.. since they can't "exercise" it off in the [ confined ] winter months - or in some cases.. ever!
Mark.. who are these that you refer to so often? Are they those that are different than the ones I know that I have spoken ( on the phone ) with over the past 10+ years? Those I know believe it's better to keep them hungry than feed them something just to keep them full [ in their minds ].
Just hung-up with a long-time [ he was there when the 1st "cherryheads" came in ] redfoot keeper/breeder who feeds his youngsters - breeding adults 3x a week. He told me if he had a choice between 3 cases of romaine or 1/2 case of escarole he would choose the escarole -- and so would I. If we weren't able to get the 'staples' I refer to and our redfoots hadn't eaten in 4-5 days we would probly feed them romaine.. just to 'hydrate' them.
He also mentioned that many of these 'keepers' in FL say they are big on variety but in reality feed them the basic 'staples' as much as possible as opposed to the big variety. They are less particular about the fruit items.. but that's usually only once a week [ unless it's "harvest" season].
So to clarify.. we would wait to get the 'best' than feed them something else.. just so we could say we did!
My caresheet [ on redfoots.com ] when read.. plainly states 'Please keep in mind..too much or too little of any one step will throw it all out of balance'. http://www.redfoots.com/redfoot.htm
Eating the "same" greens for 2-3 months out of the year hasn't shown any ill effects anymore than when they park under a plum tree during harvest time in the wild.
FWIW...
Terry K
'fifth'.. is it really better to feed 2x as much to get the same results?.. since they can't "exercise" it off in the [ confined ] winter months - or in some cases.. ever!
Mark.. who are these that you refer to so often? Are they those that are different than the ones I know that I have spoken ( on the phone ) with over the past 10+ years? Those I know believe it's better to keep them hungry than feed them something just to keep them full [ in their minds ].
Just hung-up with a long-time [ he was there when the 1st "cherryheads" came in ] redfoot keeper/breeder who feeds his youngsters - breeding adults 3x a week. He told me if he had a choice between 3 cases of romaine or 1/2 case of escarole he would choose the escarole -- and so would I. If we weren't able to get the 'staples' I refer to and our redfoots hadn't eaten in 4-5 days we would probly feed them romaine.. just to 'hydrate' them.
He also mentioned that many of these 'keepers' in FL say they are big on variety but in reality feed them the basic 'staples' as much as possible as opposed to the big variety. They are less particular about the fruit items.. but that's usually only once a week [ unless it's "harvest" season].
So to clarify.. we would wait to get the 'best' than feed them something else.. just so we could say we did!
My caresheet [ on redfoots.com ] when read.. plainly states 'Please keep in mind..too much or too little of any one step will throw it all out of balance'. http://www.redfoots.com/redfoot.htm
Eating the "same" greens for 2-3 months out of the year hasn't shown any ill effects anymore than when they park under a plum tree during harvest time in the wild.
FWIW...
Terry K
- Status
Similar threads
