Red foot attacking mates neck (should have read the FAQ stickies in 2009)

[SD_tom]

Well we have a male and female that have been together 15 years and then this fall we found the female with a big chunk out of her neck, skin dangling.. too gruesome for photos. We assumed the male did it but did not witness it so werent sure, maybe she got caught on something..

After some expensive vet visits stitching her neck back together with staples and antibiotics for weeks and keeping them separate.. she was all healed up and so we let our guard down and let them comingle last two weeks and today we came home to the same kind of wound.. .

At least we were able to give her a
chlorhexidine bath with some silver sulfadiazine cream left over from the last incident until we get an appointment. Ugh.. feel like I let her severely down by removing the divider.. and worse after reading the "don't get two" sticky on the faq list.

So, moving fwd..since we really only have a single 9'x3' indoor area and maybe 9'x4' outdoor pen I put them in if it's not too cool outside...dividing both in half sort of feels too small. We have rats, skunks, racoons, cats roaming the yards at night so even if we add heat outside to keep one out there I worry about it. Any secure multi barn pen designs worth checking out?

Maybe re-home one? I'd like to keep her to make sure she's not abused going forward. But I suppose we *should* keep the jerk face now that he's shown repeated behavior..

Any recommendations ?

 

[TechnoCheese]

I don’t have any recommendations for you, but thank you for sharing this. Many people get pairs of redfoots assuming it’ll be fine because they’re a more “communal” species. It’s very helpful to have records, even anecdotal, of stuff like this. A lot of times, when something like this goes wrong, it goes unreported. Hopefully she’ll recover this time, too.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Actually, are you entirely sure it couldn’t have been done by the predators you mentioned? They should still be separated, of course, but I would wonder if it wasn’t done by a raccoon, rat, or cat.

 

[SD_tom]

Actually, are you entirely sure it couldn’t have been done by the predators you mentioned? They should still be separated, of course, but I would wonder if it wasn’t done by a raccoon, rat, or cat.

Should have been more clear, The indoor is part of a sunroom that is part of the house. Both were indoors today with the makeshift divider removed.

The outdoor is out in the backyard, which to date has been utilized by me putting them both in there in the morning and putting them back inside at night when the weather is suitable. So I was theorizing.. either I have to split both these areas in half now or kick one of them outdoors permanently and have to solve the predator problem as well as electrical/heat as it was just their day yard.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Should have been more clear, The indoor is part of a sunroom that is part of the house. Both were indoors today with the makeshift divider removed.

The outdoor is out in the backyard, which to date has been utilized by me putting them both in there in the morning and putting them back inside at night when the weather is suitable. So I was theorizing.. either I have to split both these areas in half now or kick one of them outdoors permanently and have to solve the predator problem as well as electrical/heat as it was just their day yard.

Gotcha. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide. More people should be here eventually with more valuable input.

 

[Tom]

Well we have a male and female that have been together 15 years and then this fall we found the female with a big chunk out of her neck, skin dangling.. too gruesome for photos. We assumed the male did it but did not witness it so werent sure, maybe she got caught on something..

After some expensive vet visits stitching her neck back together with staples and antibiotics for weeks and keeping them separate.. she was all healed up and so we let our guard down and let them comingle last two weeks and today we came home to the same kind of wound.. .

At least we were able to give her a
chlorhexidine bath with some silver sulfadiazine cream left over from the last incident until we get an appointment. Ugh.. feel like I let her severely down by removing the divider.. and worse after reading the "don't get two" sticky on the faq list.

So, moving fwd..since we really only have a single 9'x3' indoor area and maybe 9'x4' outdoor pen I put them in if it's not too cool outside...dividing both in half sort of feels too small. We have rats, skunks, racoons, cats roaming the yards at night so even if we add heat outside to keep one out there I worry about it. Any secure multi barn pen designs worth checking out?

Maybe re-home one? I'd like to keep her to make sure she's not abused going forward. But I suppose we *should* keep the jerk face now that he's shown repeated behavior..

Any recommendations ?

Hi Tom. Welcome to the forum.

Sorry you had to learn this lesson the hard way. I hope other people will read this and learn from your experience.

Everyone has those same predators, and more, all over the country. I live out in the sticks in Santa Clarita to your north and we certainly do. Adult redfoots shouldn't be bothered by any of those during the day, and at night they should be closed up in their heated shelters. You can use a cage of some sort, but 9x4 is way too small for an adult RF. They should be in something at least 20 x 20 or 30 x 30. Tortoises need more space. I have my stars outdoors full time in a 30 x 30' cage with two double door heated night boxes for them to sleep in over night and go into on cold rainy winter days. They come and go all day as they please, and I latch the doors shut at night after verifying that everyone is in.

They sell these at tractor supply. You could put two or three together and no predators could get to your tortoises.


These are 8x8 feet and I've now attached a heated night box to the outside so it adds to the square footage:

 

[SD_tom]

Do you think a single 20x20 would be what it would take to keep them together but tone down the conflict or you're saying each their own 20x20 is the only fair/humane thing. That makes it somewhat easier cause there is no room for 40'x20' for sure, maybe a 25x6 tops (small San Diego yard) outdoors so that divided by 2 is still only 12x6 per tortoise .. so rehoming one or both might be the humane thing.

 

[wellington]

Do you think a single 20x20 would be what it would take to keep them together but tone down the conflict or you're saying each their own 20x20 is the only fair/humane thing. That makes it somewhat easier cause there is no room for 40'x20' for sure, maybe a 25x6 tops (small San Diego yard) outdoors so that divided by 2 is still only 12x6 per tortoise .. so rehoming one or both might be the humane thing.

Tortoises should never be kept in pairs! Learn the lesson so your female doesn't have to pay the price again!
No, one is not big enough for two as two should not live together.

 

[SD_tom]

Tortoises should never be kept in pairs! Learn the lesson so your female doesn't have to pay the price again!
No, one is not big enough for two as two should not live together.

got it. going to get to the vet for her and then see what i can do about rehoming one which is crappy but seems like our situation can't really support two of them with the space you all are recommending

 

[ZEROPILOT]

got it. going to get to the vet for her and then see what i can do about rehoming one which is crappy but seems like our situation can't really support two of them with the space you all are recommending

The issue is the pair.
You can add two or more other females and make a very large enclosure for them. This makes it less likely that any single female will take all of the bullying.
Large groups of mostly or all females can work. Groups of juveniles can work.(Can)
It's the pairs that don't. (Ever)
And no groups with less than 3 females per male. (If you go big) IMO.
I've gone big....And have had issue after issue. Luckily I can keep my RF outside, so it's just a matter of constructing another pen. But this can be a serious issue for a lot of people with limited space.

 

[Tom]

Do you think a single 20x20 would be what it would take to keep them together but tone down the conflict or you're saying each their own 20x20 is the only fair/humane thing. That makes it somewhat easier cause there is no room for 40'x20' for sure, maybe a 25x6 tops (small San Diego yard) outdoors so that divided by 2 is still only 12x6 per tortoise .. so rehoming one or both might be the humane thing.

No amount of space will make the pair thing work. Especially in a case where this sort of attack/injury has already happened twice.

25x6 feet is smaller than I would like, but certainly adequate for one adult RF. I think 12x6 is too small for anything other than small juveniles.