Redfoot substrate to keep humidity high

[sintapiviti]

Hello All. I've just received my first red foot. He/She is around 11cm in length, around 1 year old according to the seller. I'm keeping it outdoor

I have question regarding substrate. I live in a tropical country and the temp is around 27-32 C. As I understand, this is perfect for RF. My concern however is humidity. Right now I have top soil mixed with coco coir and mist/spray them occasionally. This does keep humidity up but I'm concern of "over-misting" and shell rot, because the surface is almost always wet/damp when I do this. I read by adding cypress mulch on top, I can still maintain humidity while not keeping the surface wet all the the time. Is this the correct way to go?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I recommend that you switch to coco coir only, since most top soil contain harmful pesticides, toxic plants or fertilizers. Usually it is hard to know just what your top soil contains.

You could add cypress mulch or orchird bark (fir bark) on top of the substrate. But most importantly, instead of misting many redfoot keepers pour water into the corners of the enclosure and turn over the substrate if needed.

 

[mojo_1]

I use orchid bark only in my setup and it holds the humidity for months on end. I just pour hot water in the corners when needed.

 

[sintapiviti]

Thx for the reply. I forgot to mention that I have sphagnum moss also in there, and I just learned from this site that it's a no no. Kinda crazy since it's recommended in many sites/videos during my early research into RF.

So, I need to redo the substrate anyway because of this. I'll put coco coir only this time and the cypress mulch on top. Cypress mulch is very expensive compared to other type of substrate in my area. I read another alternative is orchid bark, but here all of them is pine bark, not fir bark, which I think is not good for tortoises

Just to clarify, in order increase humidity, I would just need pour some water in the corners, without removing the mulch beforehand? Any idea how much? I guess this will depend on enclosure size and the thickness of the coco coir

I recommend that you switch to coco coir only, since most top soil contain harmful pesticides, toxic plants or fertilizers. Usually it is hard to know just what your top soil contains.

You could add cypress mulch or orchird bark (fir bark) on top of the substrate. But most importantly, instead of misting many redfoot keepers pour water into the corners of the enclosure and turn over the substrate if needed.

 

[sintapiviti]

I use orchid bark only in my setup and it holds the humidity for months on end. I just pour hot water in the corners when needed.

Sadly the only orchid bark I can find here is of the pine bark type, which I believe is not good for tortoise. I don't know why some packaging of these even include photo and description that it's good for reptile

 

[mojo_1]

Sadly the only orchid bark I can find here is of the pine bark type, which I believe is not good for tortoise. I don't know why some packaging of these even include photo and description that it's good for reptile

You are correct the pine is bad for the tortoise. I would stick with coco coir then, but still try and leave the top layer dry. Growing edible plants in the enclosure will also help with humidity. I gave Mojo a little snacking garden. I did use coco coir to plant the seeds in.

 

[sintapiviti]

You are correct the pine is bad for the tortoise. I would stick with coco coir then, but still try and leave the top layer dry. Growing edible plants in the enclosure will also help with humidity. I gave Mojo a little snacking garden. I did use coco coir to plant the seeds in.

Looks great. What plant are those? Did you grow them from seed? I haven't had much luck with live plants unfortunately. The best I've done is with the spider plant. My dandelion on the other hand, looks as if it's growing leaf as fast it drops them lol

 

[sintapiviti]

Oh 1 more question. How about humid hide? Since sphagnum moss is not recommended, should I use something else?

 

[mojo_1]

Oh 1 more question. How about humid hide? Since sphagnum moss is not recommended, should I use something else?

It's a weed mix from the link below. As for the hide. It should have the same humidity as the rest of the enclosure without doing anything extra. https://www.tortoisesupply.com/TestudoMix

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Here is one idea on making a humid hide while preventing shell rot (not wet top substrate): https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-make-a-clay-pot-hide.197183/

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome!! I absolutely love red foots🥰 hopefully some of this information I include will help here, you may know a lot already but I always cover everything for new members who come across threads😊

When under 10 inches, they do best in a closed chamber set up to better control the temperature and humidity, I would never recommend housing a young one outside of enclosed chamber even in your climate personally, it’s just easier in making sure their levels are are correct, outdoors can overheat

I’m going to include some information below on examples of the correct kind of equipment to use and levels etc, hopefully it helps!

If using a light emitting heat source it should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached)on a 12 hour timer, using a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) for night heat.

However I think ceramics as a heat source are more suited to red foot’s and far less desiccating on their shells.

Red foot’s don’t necessarily need a ‘basking area’ they aren’t typically a basking species coming from the forest floor(some do though, it depends on the individual) there’s no need for a ‘cooler end’ and ‘warmer end’ with these guys, aim for an overall ambient temperature range of 80-86(82-84 being optimal)temps shouldn’t ever be going below 80 for one as young as yours both night&day.

Personally we rely on CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) as our heat source 24/7, on thermostats, they’re a non light emitting bulb and I think you’ll find it easier sticking to these as your heat source to keep your temps nice and stable. When using multiple hang them equal distance to distribute the heat more evenly.

Large wide dome fittings will help project the heat down, but don’t rely on the clamps that come with them, always hang them securely.

You can then hang some ambient lighting on a 12hour timer, it can being either a led strip or a led bulb in 5000k-65000k colour range. Create lots of shady areas with safe plants and hides, red foots don’t like things too bright.

Any indoor UV needs to be provided as a t5 tube fluorescent light, the compact or all in one bulbs either are too harsh creating uv hot spots that can damage their eyes, or are far too weak. I’ve attached the brands to go for and examples of stands to mount them.

However if you’re able to get them out for a few hours of natural sunlight daily, don’t worry about the uv. Just make sure it’s not too warm and they’re in a secure run with lots of shade.

Your little one will need around 80%+ humidity 24/7 to thrive, the right substrate and a good closed chamber set up goes a long way in making this work. You’ll struggle with an open top indoors.

We personally keep our red foot on orchid bark, we focus on the under layer of the substrate being nice and damp to create the humidity, then the top layer being dry, the trouble with constantly spraying is, one, it can only lasts so long, and two, keeping that top layer constantly damp will leave them more prone to a fungal infection, avoid misters/foggers for this reason too, the humidifiers can also make the air too wet leading to respiratory issues. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry because you don’t want dusty substrate, we mix it now n then, which also helps gives a humidity boost without extra water🙂to maintain our humidity we simply pour some lukewarm water into the corners of the substrate, not loads! Just enough to dampen the whole under layer. You can keep an eye on your monitors&substrate to do the pours as and when needed, which in a good closed chamber set up, you shouldn’t have to do loads😊

Substrate wise never add any kind of moss, that’s something some stores think nothing of, but it can actually cause lethal impactions.

Don’t use any top soils or anything mixed with sand. Trouble with top soil is, unless composted yourself, there’s no telling if a toxic plant has gone into it.

Safe substrate options are coco coir, damp and packed down by hand as a base, with orchid bark(fir not pine) on top, or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/ forest floor on their own.

Size wise I’d generally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have, this tortoise full grown is going to need a large, secure outdoor space if your climate is good for it, which sounds like it is😁
A good cost effective closed chamber starter set up would be a greenhouse style enclosure by making your own large base out of a safe material, or even use a garden bed frame! For both these options line with some cheap pond liner, the lining going up the sides too and make sure those sides are high enough. Then simply secure a greenhouse topper on top, if you can’t find an exact fit, place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d place some lining under the cover and base though to avoid condensate getting on your floor.

Some people even hang their lighting and heat from the greenhouse frame!
(If sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire around for the height you need(check with a temperature gun/add thermostats, roughly 18-21 inches for the uv, which I don’t think you’ll need in your case) and secure with cable ties and chains. Or you could make your own stands out of safe timber, again I’ll attach some pics.

For a water dish a large terracotta saucer, sitting flush with the substrate is safest, they have grip in the event the tortoise flips, most pet store options are a hazard😕

Id definitely recommend a temp gun to make sure your monitors are reading correctly. Have monitors that read both temp and humidity.

Ignore whatever else is in the photos in the enclosures, they’re just to give you an idea😊and ignore that some of the fittings in the pics are floodlights, ches will work great, just examples on how to hang your bulbs👍

Also as this is a closed chamber set up, the materials like the lining and cover will need time to off gas, I’d leave it all running up to a week, or until there is no odour, if there’s no smell, it’s safe for use. Don’t add a cover to an outdoor enclosure, it could overheat.

Hopefully some of this helps if you think they’ll benefit in an environment easier to control🥰

 

[sintapiviti]

Here is one idea on making a humid hide while preventing shell rot (not wet top substrate): https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-make-a-clay-pot-hide.197183/

Nice idea, but I kinda bad with tools lol. But isn't it the same if we just put the water saucer on the substrate? Is this to prevent the tort from stomping over it or drinking from it?

 

[sintapiviti]

Hello and welcome!! I absolutely love red foots🥰 hopefully some of this information I include will help here, you may know a lot already but I always cover everything for new members who come across threads😊

<snip>

Wow, I haven't read all of this, I just want to reply first that I really appreciate the welcome and the amazing write up, this should be available in pdf or something. Now I will go read them and maybe comeback later with more questions 😁

 

[mojo_1]

Nice idea, but I kinda bad with tools lol. But isn't it the same if we just put the water saucer on the substrate? Is this to prevent the tort from stomping over it or drinking from it?

The idea of that is purely to raise humidity in the hide. But as I said you don't have to do anything special to have a humid hide. This is my setup and current temp and humidity.

 

[sintapiviti]

The idea of that is purely to raise humidity in the hide. But as I said you don't have to do anything special to have a humid hide. This is my setup and current temp and humidity.

Looks very nice and clean. And dry . Is that all orchid bark?

I've changed my substrate last night to all coco coir (I moisted it first before laying on the enclosure, about 8 cm deep) and then put cypress mulch over the top. It nicely maintained humidity at 85%-90% overnight (usually I need to spray some water to maintain this). But now it's approaching noon, it already drop to low 70%. I pour some water (room temp though, not hot) to the 4 corners, but it does not seem to increase the humidity. I don't have any CHE or UV bulb right now, temp is at 30C. It's an open enclosure, maybe that's the cause? Or maybe need to pour more water?

 

[mojo_1]

Looks very nice and clean. And dry . Is that all orchid bark?

I've changed my substrate last night to all coco coir (I moisted it first before laying on the enclosure, about 8 cm deep) and then put cypress mulch over the top. It nicely maintained humidity at 85%-90% overnight (usually I need to spray some water to maintain this). But now it's approaching noon, it already drop to low 70%. I pour some water (room temp though, not hot) to the 4 corners, but it does not seem to increase the humidity. I don't have any CHE or UV bulb right now, temp is at 30C. It's an open enclosure, maybe that's the cause? Or maybe need to pour more water?

Yes it's all orchid bark. You definitely need CHE to help and also most importantly it needs to be a closed chamber enclosure. You will never maintain humidity with an open top. The redfoot is a tropical tortoise. You will need to keep it at mid 80's for temperature and roughly mid 80's for humidity. You don't want the tort to get pyramiding or get sick from improper living conditions.

 

[mojo_1]

FYI. Zoomed reptibark is orchid bark. You can get it on Amazon or at pet smart.

https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/substrate-and-bedding/zoo-med-reptibark-natural-reptile-bedding-14985.html?fmethod=Search

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

It's an open enclosure, maybe that's the cause?

Yeah, that is probably the cause. You can add a growth tent to make your open top to a closed chamber. Just like in the photos @Littleredfootbigredheart posted.

 

[sintapiviti]

Yes it's all orchid bark. You definitely need CHE to help and also most importantly it needs to be a closed chamber enclosure. You will never maintain humidity with an open top. The redfoot is a tropical tortoise. You will need to keep it at mid 80's for temperature and roughly mid 80's for humidity. You don't want the tort to get pyramiding or get sick from improper living conditions.

I'm afraid the temperature will be too high if I use CHE since it's at 30-31C already. But for curiosity sake, I tried installing a CEH. The temp rose as expected, up to 35C directly below the CEH, but I saw no increase in humidity. Yeah I think it not being a closed enclosure is the main issue because all those evaporated water is not contained.

Is there any other option besides resorting to green house like solution in this case. If not, then I guess I'll just have to stick with the spray method. Would a humidifier help in anyway?

 

[sintapiviti]

FYI. Zoomed reptibark is orchid bark. You can get it on Amazon or at pet smart.

https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/substrate-and-bedding/zoo-med-reptibark-natural-reptile-bedding-14985.html?fmethod=Search

Unfortunately they won't ship or be exorbitantly expensive to ship to my country Indonesia. FWIW, I'm using this as cypress mulch on top of the coco coir