repcal and wisteria

[ursula]

hello group,

I have two food-related questions for my torts (9 hermanni, 3 graeca):

1. I usually give them RepCal Maintenance tortoise food 3-4 times a week. They live outside in the yard in the summer but in spring/fall they come inside because Michigan weather is not warm enough for them. Is there anything else similar to RepCal that I can give them? I cannot find the 3 lb container of RepCal anymore and the 12.5 oz is quite expensive for my small army

2. Can anyone shed light on wisteria flowers? I read seeds are toxic but what about the flowers? When they were living in Italy, we used to have a listeria plant and they loved the flowers. They also love Acacia flower but both wisteria and acacia are not good according to the tortoise table. I an inclined to trust them, they have always lived outside and have been good about finding their own food but I wonder if anyone has experience with these two plant species specifically.

Thanks!
fabia

 

[Tom]

hello group,

I have two food-related questions for my torts (9 hermanni, 3 graeca):

1. I usually give them RepCal Maintenance tortoise food 3-4 times a week. They live outside in the yard in the summer but in spring/fall they come inside because Michigan weather is not warm enough for them. Is there anything else similar to RepCal that I can give them? I cannot find the 3 lb container of RepCal anymore and the 12.5 oz is quite expensive for my small army

2. Can anyone shed light on wisteria flowers? I read seeds are toxic but what about the flowers? When they were living in Italy, we used to have a listeria plant and they loved the flowers. They also love Acacia flower but both wisteria and acacia are not good according to the tortoise table. I an inclined to trust them, they have always lived outside and have been good about finding their own food but I wonder if anyone has experience with these two plant species specifically.

Thanks!
fabia

1. Original Mazuri 5M21, or the newer Mazuri LS are both great. The ZooMed Grassland pellets are great to soak and add in some fiber and variety. I also recommend Hikari Mulberrific and Arcadia Optimized 52. Soaked horse hay pellets and Organic Lay crumbles for chickens are another great way to add some supplementary fiber and nutrition.

2. I don't know about wisteria, listeria, or acacias. I have heard that the Tortoise Table is very conservative with what they recommend for or against.

More on feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plants of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Such history as we have, owners have fed the flowers without issue.

 

[ursula]

1. Original Mazuri 5M21, or the newer Mazuri LS are both great. The ZooMed Grassland pellets are great to soak and add in some fiber and variety. I also recommend Hikari Mulberrific and Arcadia Optimized 52. Soaked horse hay pellets and Organic Lay crumbles for chickens are another great way to add some supplementary fiber and nutrition.

2. I don't know about wisteria, listeria, or acacias. I have heard that the Tortoise Table is very conservative with what they recommend for or against.

More on feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plants of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.

Thank you so much, this is very useful information!

 

[ursula]

Such history as we have, owners have fed the flowers without issue.

Thanks, this is what I observed too, I think I'll plant a wisteria in my yard so that I can give them the flowers.