russian tortoise - shell and wound issues

[spockies]

Hi all; I had a huge post typed up and I accidentally hit close, so I'm sorry if I forget anything...
I'm Mandy, this is my first post here, unfortunate circumstances though.

In 2010 we moved to Florida and the previous owners had two, 3yo Russies of opposite sex. They had put a drop of paint (!) on the top of their shells to identify them, one a blue dot and another a white one. So we call them Cloud(m) and Sky(f). The owners had built an enclosure, about 12x4' in the backyard by a sliding-glass door from the house so we can monitor them at all times. It's really nice.

Anyways, when we got them, they were young and docile. As they got older and in the past three years Cloud has gotten significantly more aggressive and bites Sky when she gets close to their food, bites her when he rapes her, etc. I know this is normal but I don't know how to handle it - should I really seperate them, or would that make them stressed? He's VERY aggressive and gets angry when we have tried to separate them previously, but the wounds Sky gets are terrible, bleeding and missing scales, it's so sad.

Sky also had a bit of healed up shellrot when we got her. It was dry but it looked like it had gone all the way down to the bone. Didn't look infected, looked fine, and nothing ever happened to it until recently.

The scute is the middle one on her lower back carapace and looks "detached" on all sides except for a small corner. It can be lifted with medium pressure, I know that's bad but I only did it once. I can't really tell what's underneath it but the section is maybe 2mm thick. It's hard, but when you poke it the space underneath it is squishy. It's the same color/marbling/texture as everything else around it, and it doesn't even look like bone anymore. The bone and pitting from before is not visible anymore. I included a picture.

I'm very scared because we have no herp vet around and she already has enough trouble with getting bit all the time by Cloud. She eats fine, she's very healthy, I just am scared about losing her. Please help!!!! :~(

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

welcome. you really should separate them, russian torts are very territorial not social animals. in the wild they chase other torts that enter there territory and try to do harm to the other tort. if you do not separated them one day the tort that get bullied could be missing an eye or even worse.

 

[dmmj]

First off, salutations.
Separation is your only option, once this starts it never stops. Best thing is to separate them.

 

[Yvonne G]

I can't really tell anything about the shell from the picture. But you can go ahead and treat it as if it were shell rot. It won't hurt anything even if it isn't shell rot. Clean it real well and scrub it lightly with a soft bristle brush, scrubbing under the scute as far as the bristles will reach. The flush it with Nolvesan (chlorhexidine). Allow it to dry, then dab some athlete's foot cream under there.

I'm afraid I'm with all those other posts. You need to separate the tortoises. Don't worry about upsetting old meany pants. He'll get over it.

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[spockies]

Thank you all for all your help, greetings, and the unanimous separation idea!
My only question though, is can I keep them both in the same enclosure and maybe just put up a stationary fence to divide the enclosure? That would make their living space each 6x4'. Is that okay? Can they still be in the same 12x4' enclosure and be okay with hearing each other move around? I'm sorry if these are rookie questions.

Thank you Yvonne for your help concerning the mysterious shell issue. What I'm afraid of with cleaning it with the soft bristle brush is that I don't know how far detached the little piece is. Should I try to lift up the pulled away piece and clean under there? How gentle / firm should I be while cleaning it? Should I soak her in water and try and give her a little bath? When I do that, I put lukewarm water just up to the meeting point of the plastron and her skin (so she can breathe). She usually relieves herself and I have to constantly drain the water because it gets VERY dirty very quickly (within 2mins or less). I don't usually give her a bath, should I be doing that more often?

I thought I didn't have to take very much care of her (besides feeding and checking up on them every day of course) since she was in an normal, humid, warm outside environment, but now I feel terrible, like a bad owner, because of all of her bites and this terrible shell problem.

 

[dmmj]

Splitting the enclosure should work just fine.

 

[Yvonne G]

It is going to come off eventually. They never grow back together. So if it pops off during cleaning, it is no big deal. The bone dies under the removed scute. Happens quite frequently and is not life threatening.

We have all learned from first hand experience, and at our animals' expense. Don't beat yourself up over it. I've done some bad things to my tortoises during the learning process too. The good thing is you're here now, and you can benefit from our experience.

 

[spockies]

They never grow back together...The bone dies under the removed scute.

Oh no! Did she feel pain? Will she feel pain when it comes off? Will it be more open to infection later?

Thank you for your kind, kind words of encouragement. I'm very happy I joined this site now.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hard to say if it's painful or not. But animals deal with pain better than we do. They are better able to tune it out. I really doubt it will get infected. There won't be any blood supply to the area and it should dry out and no bacteria will grow.

 

[ascott]

I would separate as well. Also, you live in a really humid area---does the ground in the enclosed area remain fairly damp always? If yes, is there any place that the tortoise can climb up off of the wetness to allow their shell to dry out some.....and another thing, that female tortoise will be forever grateful for the peace and quiet you offer her by cutting off access to the male...you can place a few river rocks in his enclosure that are close to his size for mounting and I bet before long he will have himself a favorite one...lol...