Settling in with Russian hatchling - Please advise.

[bigballofyarn]

I've had my Russian hatchling for 1 week now. Please confirm that I've taken advice correctly. I really would love to stop worrying about the little guy.

-I discarded the pellet bedding and bought some Zoo Med Eco Earth Loose Coconut Fiber Substrate. I heard that the orchid bark is good too, but he's still too little to try to walk on that in my opinion. I threw some Timothy Hay around the substrate to give it a fun look.

-I returned the coiled UV bulb and the 40W basking bulb. The coiled bulb was returned for obvious reasons and the 40W basking bulb was a joke. It only got the basking spot to about 79*. I purchased a Zoo Med Powersun 100W Mercury Vapor lamp. The basking spot now gets to about 105* The middle of the habitat is about 80* and the cool side is about 71*.


All of this has brought forward new questions.

1. The fiber is a lot smaller than the pellets. The pellets obviously were never accidentally ingested. The fiber may be since he sometimes takes his food off his dish and walks around with it. Is this dangerous?
2. Do the temperatures sound okay? Is the basking temperature too hot? If he sits under it for too long, will he burn himself or his shell?
3. Since I now have an all-in-one bulb, does he need to be directly underneath it (basking) to benefit from the UVB?

The habitat I bought is a glass tank that needed to fit the furniture I currently have. I will upgrade in the future. The habitat is 24"L x 18"D x 12"H. Please note the strength of the bulb and that the light fixture I am using is a 10" Sun Dome. Right now, the light is resting on the screen (all the way to the left) covering the tank because I have nowhere to hang the light. Please note the temperatures I gave you above. Does he have adequate escape from the heat? There is a log hide with a fake plant over it in the cooler side. There is just a plant on the hotter side (behind the lamp).

 

[bigballofyarn]

I thought of another question and can't edit my post. I apologize. Should I switch to a different bulb in the summer when the house is hotter? We don't have central air.

 

[wellington]

LOL, the worries don't go away that easy, but hopefully you will be able to relax a little more. The coconut coir is fine, it won't cause impactions. I would remove the hay, it's too drying and you do need to add some humidity. All this you can find in the hatchling care sheet under the Russian section. Your temps sound fine now, but with the proper humidity, your low side will need to come up. As for the summer, if you will build him a safe outside enclosure for summe, coming inside to sleep at night, you won't need to use any bulbs or heat.

 

[bigballofyarn]

LOL, the worries don't go away that easy, but hopefully you will be able to relax a little more. The coconut coir is fine, it won't cause impactions. I would remove the hay, it's too drying and you do need to add some humidity. All this you can find in the hatchling care sheet under the Russian section. Your temps sound fine now, but with the proper humidity, your low side will need to come up. As for the summer, if you will build him a safe outside enclosure for summe, coming inside to sleep at night, you won't need to use any bulbs or heat.

The humidity meter says 60% with the new coco fiber. It was 50% with the pellets. I was told between 40 and 60 was good. If that's wrong, please correct me. As for the temps being fine, does that include it not being too hot anywhere, and not risking burning him? I'm going to buy a Reptile Lamp Stand tomorrow. So, then I can adjust the strength a little I guess.

 

[wellington]

With the humidity I wouldn't let temps go below 80. Cold and damp makes a sick tort. The basking is fine.
The humidity for younger ones should be on the higher side. Member Tom has been raising some young Russians with higher humidity and it's working good for him. I don't know what the exact % is that he is using. It will be in his care sheet and I will alert him to this thread. @Tom

 

[bigballofyarn]

With the humidity I wouldn't let temps go below 80. Cold and damp makes a sick tort. The basking is fine.
The humidity for younger ones should be on the higher side. Member Tom has been raising some young Russians with higher humidity and it's working good for him. I don't know what the exact % is that he is using. It will be in his care sheet and I will alert him to this thread. @Tom

The cool side usually ends up at the room temperature of the house. With winter coming, we'll be putting it up. I also did buy a small evening bulb, but need to buy another fixture if I need to use it. I was told that a lot of people don't use night heat. So, I wasn't sure whether or not it was needed.

Thank you. I am eager to meet @Tom.

 

[Carol S]

If the screen on the top of your enclosure is like the screen on a screen door it will filter out a lot of the UVB. I use the ZooMed LARGE light stand which can be lowered and raised to get the corret basking temperature. I have the basking spot for my Russian hatchings at 95-100 degrees directly under the bulb.

http://www.petmountain.com/product/snake-lighting/11442-510303/zoo-med-reptile-lamp-stand.html

 

[Tom]

I've had my Russian hatchling for 1 week now. Please confirm that I've taken advice correctly. I really would love to stop worrying about the little guy.

-I discarded the pellet bedding and bought some Zoo Med Eco Earth Loose Coconut Fiber Substrate. I heard that the orchid bark is good too, but he's still too little to try to walk on that in my opinion. I threw some Timothy Hay around the substrate to give it a fun look.

-I returned the coiled UV bulb and the 40W basking bulb. The coiled bulb was returned for obvious reasons and the 40W basking bulb was a joke. It only got the basking spot to about 79*. I purchased a Zoo Med Powersun 100W Mercury Vapor lamp. The basking spot now gets to about 105* The middle of the habitat is about 80* and the cool side is about 71*.


All of this has brought forward new questions.

1. The fiber is a lot smaller than the pellets. The pellets obviously were never accidentally ingested. The fiber may be since he sometimes takes his food off his dish and walks around with it. Is this dangerous?
2. Do the temperatures sound okay? Is the basking temperature too hot? If he sits under it for too long, will he burn himself or his shell?
3. Since I now have an all-in-one bulb, does he need to be directly underneath it (basking) to benefit from the UVB?

The habitat I bought is a glass tank that needed to fit the furniture I currently have. I will upgrade in the future. The habitat is 24"L x 18"D x 12"H. Please note the strength of the bulb and that the light fixture I am using is a 10" Sun Dome. Right now, the light is resting on the screen (all the way to the left) covering the tank because I have nowhere to hang the light. Please note the temperatures I gave you above. Does he have adequate escape from the heat? There is a log hide with a fake plant over it in the cooler side. There is just a plant on the hotter side (behind the lamp).

I would remove the hay. You will need to keep the coir damp and that hay will mold. Plus russians don't usually eat grass or hay. Make the substrate about 4-6" thick and had pack it down. Dump water into it periodically to keep it damp, but not soaking wet.

Hard for me to grasp a basking spot of 105 and less than 24" away its only 71. How are you measuring these temps?

Your questions:
1. Accidentally ingestion small amounts of coco coir will not hurt the tortoise.
2. 105 is a little on the warm side, but he can move away from it, so it should be fine. Like Carol, I prefer 95-100 directly under the bulb. Covering most of the top of the tank will also hold in more ambient heat.
3. He will get UV benefit from being near the light too.

I like them to have access to a humid hide.

How cold does your house get at night? This will determine i you need night heat. If you do need night heat, a ceramic heating element set on a thermostat works best. Colored bulbs are not good for them either.

 

[Tom]

Check these out:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[bigballofyarn]

@Tom, I have multiple analog temperature readers. I read those two threads on day one, but since my setup is a little different, I still wanted to ask some questions.

My house is about 71-72 at night now. It may get put up in the winter. His "cool side" stays at my house temperature even with the lights off all night.

 

[bigballofyarn]

@Tom, I have multiple analog temperature readers. I read those two threads on day one, but since my setup is a little different, I still wanted to ask some questions.

Following your thread:
He already came from a pet store and I'm attached. So, there's no changing that. I've returned the dangerous pet store products. I didn't mind cost while I was replacing everything. I can look for a better deal later. I corrected the substrate. He's not on the pellets with which he came. He has a water bowl that I made myself out of a big yogurt cup cover. I caught him drinking once. He doesn't ever drink in his bath, so I assume he's doing it otherwise. I have multiple analog thermometers within the tank. They were all tested in conditions in which I knew the temperature before using them. I've been soaking him every morning, a little after he wakes up. I figure I wouldn't want to be messed with first thing in the morning either. I let him get up, yawn and stretch first. Then I feed him after he bathes. He has hides. He won't be getting a roommate. I'm enough for him to tolerate.

Answering your question:
My house is about 71-72 at night now. It may get put up in the winter. His "cool side" stays at my house temperature even with the lights off all night.

 

[Pearly]

Congrats on your baby tort! I didn't thoroughly read the entire thread but couple of thing caught my attention.
I keep my RF babies in 40 gal heavily planted nursery tank, with reptile terrarium screen covering the top. This screen is made out of metal wire in fishnet pattern that's especially designed for the UV and heat elements to go through. If you are using one of those you should be ok.
I keep RF and not sure about your species. For RF babies the lowest temp needs to be 80F.
My cool side is consistently at 80F and the substrate probe inside the cave on this side reads 79F and both babies do use that cave on occasion but more often I see them sleep on the warm side.
My substrate is coco coir with some organic soil (I often throw seeds there for the babies to have new sprouts to snack on). I did have the bark when I first got the babies, but like you, decided that their little feet needed something softer, so while changing enclosure into closed chamber, I put all that bark on the bottom of the tank, then a thick layer of soft substrate that's covered with moss. I'm trying to grow live moss around the water bowl but not sure if it survives. Typically mosses like cool weather.
As for food, I chop their food to very fine consistency. When we first got them one of them (the smaller one) wouldn't eat and I was always worried about his intake, watched him for few days struggle with his food and retreating to his hide after giving up. He was very tiny with his yolk scar not completely healed on his belly.
I was on the forum and Internet a lot but didn't really run across the answers I needed/wanted to hear, so I put my mother's experience to work and started blending the food adding soaked in water various commercial pellets into purée consistency and our little dude stated eating like he'd never seen food before. I'd scoop it up on top of nice lettuce leaf, which would sit on nice piece of slate. Getting the food dirty was driving me crazy too that's why I have the moss all over. They can still dig and burrow but the food stays clean. this picture was taken couple of days ago. I still chop the food but no more blender, the yellow/orange stuff you see on top of chopped food is baby food sweet potato. I always keep some baby food with things that my family doesn't like and some baby purée meets in broth just for variety. I always put couple of different lettuce leaves down to minimize plant destruction
Our babies are about 7 months old (supposedly) and we've had then since June, long enough to develop some routines. You will too in time. Just keep trying things that work for you.
Sorry for the long post but I grew up in the era of writing letters when getting a long letter was always the best thing ever.
I can never learn to convey complex message in 1-2 sentences, hopefully there is something in my post that you can find useful

 

[bigballofyarn]

@Pearly, I still prefer handwritten communication, so I don't mind at all.

I hand-fed mine a few times when I was having trouble. Then I realized I probably shouldn't keep doing that because he needs to learn how to eat on his own. So I rip of the spring mix with my hands into various sizes and see how he does.

I'm still hearing varying things about temperatures, but I'm not looking to debate with anyone. Some say to never let it drop below 80, while others say that a lower night temperature is natural, even for babies that would be living outside. I'll happily listen to either argument, but again, I'm not looking to argue.

I have developed a little routine. I initially set the lights to the 12-hour schedule I assumed he was on in the store. Then I noticed when he wanted to wake up and go to sleep, so I adjusted the timer.

I let him yawn and stretch when he wakes up. I give him about 20 minutes and then I soak him. After he's nice and clean, he gets to eat.

I work from home, so I start my work a little after that. After I turn in my first assignment, I make sure he hasn't gotten into any trouble, and pretty much just tell him I love him all day.

 

[Tom]

@Tom, I have multiple analog temperature readers. I read those two threads on day one, but since my setup is a little different, I still wanted to ask some questions.

Following your thread:
He already came from a pet store and I'm attached. So, there's no changing that. I've returned the dangerous pet store products. I didn't mind cost while I was replacing everything. I can look for a better deal later. I corrected the substrate. He's not on the pellets with which he came. He has a water bowl that I made myself out of a big yogurt cup cover. I caught him drinking once. He doesn't ever drink in his bath, so I assume he's doing it otherwise. I have multiple analog thermometers within the tank. They were all tested in conditions in which I knew the temperature before using them. I've been soaking him every morning, a little after he wakes up. I figure I wouldn't want to be messed with first thing in the morning either. I let him get up, yawn and stretch first. Then I feed him after he bathes. He has hides. He won't be getting a roommate. I'm enough for him to tolerate.

Answering your question:
My house is about 71-72 at night now. It may get put up in the winter. His "cool side" stays at my house temperature even with the lights off all night.

Sounds to me like you've got everything covered. The minor tweaks I would do is lower the basking temp a little bit, get rid of the screen, and cover the part to the top not near the heat lamp to hopefully raise cool side ambient a few degree during the day.

I am one of the people who thinks that the night temp should drop for russians, and doing this on damp substrate has never caused me any problem. I let mine drop to the high 60s on occasion and low 70s normally. Then they can get good and warm the next day. Even out doors two thirds of my russian enclosure is irrigated to grow tortoise food in raised planter beds and they sleep outside in that dampness. No problem here. I can't even count all the backyard russians around here living in irrigated back yards.

 

[Pearly]

I'm glad you are getting advise from some one who knows yours species. I'm just now wrapping my head around my own. Took me a while to gain some confidence. I raise tropical forest species, but as for food I think all babies (including human) are this same. Some are eager, some fussy It sounds like you are going to do just fine. Please keep us posted and don't forget to post pictures.

 

[bigballofyarn]

I'm glad you are getting advise from some one who knows yours species. I'm just now wrapping my head around my own. Took me a while to gain some confidence. I raise tropical forest species, but as for food I think all babies (including human) are this same. Some are eager, some fussy It sounds like you are going to do just fine. Please keep us posted and don't forget to post pictures.

I told him not to eat in the dirt and this is what he did. Haha.